Posted by LeeA on 11/14/11 8:18pm
Msg #403934

Notary Cancel appointments at the last minute.

Here lately we have had a lot of Notaries cancel at the last minute. Please understand you are not hurting us it is the Borrower who you are hurting. This is very unprofessional, when you accept a closing, remember its not the borrowers fault the documents are late, its not the signing company fault and its not evening the Title Company fault.

We are all want the closing to happen on time, and everyone to be happy.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/14/11 8:23pm
Msg #403936

Well, though I can see where you're coming from here

I'll respectfully disagree that it's not title's fault - sometimes it is...in fact, many times it is.

If the notary is canceling because title can't get the docs to them on time, why should the notary's next appointment suffer for that? If SS or Title schedule an appt for, let's say 6:00pm, those docs should be ready by 4:00..

JMO

Reply by Carolyn Breckenridge on 11/14/11 8:42pm
Msg #403947

Re: Well, though I can see where you're coming from here

I worked for a title company as a closer for a number of years. I can tell you that is is not usually the title company's faught. We used a signing comany for all of our closings. We did REO properties that closed all over the state as well as nationally. On REO properties you do not have the benefit of having a seller at the closing table, so not only do you have hud approval, package delays, but you can have seller delays getting everything signed.

If I had everything ready to go that package went out to the notary immediately. If not, I had to delay it in order to have it finalized.

Lenders towards the end of the month get backed up with loan packages and hud approvals It is not rare to have a package delay for these reasons and it is beyond the title companies' control.

Reply by jba/fl on 11/14/11 8:46pm
Msg #403948

This is not EOM though.... n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/14/11 8:46pm
Msg #403949

To me that goes back to title - they should know where

they are with the HUD and how soon they're going to get that clear to close. If they send the HUD at 12:00 for a closing they've scheduled for 1:00, guess what? It's not gonna happen.

That's why I'm a strong proponent of "give the closing to the notary and let THEM schedule the time" ...but yes, many times it's on title simply because they overextend themselves.

JMO

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/14/11 8:26pm
Msg #403937

Is the cancellation due to a "drop dead" time by the Notary? Or, is the cancellation due to an unprofessional, flaky Notary? If the latter, then that Notary should be verbally blasted (translation: tongue lashing). But if it's the former, then it's business - we are not "on-call" indefinitely. There comes a point where the hiring party has to either produce or reschedule. Notaries put in a good faith effort to be available but there must be a limit. Yes, the borrower suffers but so does the Notary when he/she turns down other offers for a signing that ultimately does not happen.

Reply by Lee/AR on 11/14/11 8:26pm
Msg #403938

Not the Notary's fault either. S/he may have another appointment or obligation.
When you hire someone for a 3pm, it's really their option whether or not they can make it at 4 or 5 or ??? Don't forget that it IS their time/dime you're messing with when docs are delayed.

When that happens, it might be wise to ask what the notary's 'drop dead' time is and make a decision to cancel immediately & find another notary or hang in there and hope it works out.

Reply by Buddy Young on 11/14/11 8:34pm
Msg #403939

"it's not the borowers fault the documents are late, it's not the signing company the documents are late, it's not even the TC fault the documents are late."

Then who's fault is it? It certainly is not the notarys fault.

If the documents don't arrive, I would cancell the appointment at the last minute too.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/14/11 8:35pm
Msg #403940

Oh..and just out of curiosity...who are you? n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 11/14/11 8:36pm
Msg #403941

Sounds as though you are SS - peeved you now have to go elsewhere....are you paying on time with good reputation on your end of the deal? If not, don't blame the notary for leaving you high and dry instead of looking out for themselves.

Why, just this morning a notary was wondering about what to do as the SS has a 'not so sterling' reputation - should they give it back? You can just imagine my response - or look it up.

There are always two and sometimes three sides to a story.

Reply by jba/fl on 11/14/11 8:37pm
Msg #403942

sorry - hit wrong button - not finished. n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 11/14/11 8:38pm
Msg #403944

will try again....

we have to hear more before making our minds up.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/14/11 10:44pm
Msg #403960

I just happened to be on the phone earlier with the OP who told me she posted this issue here. I'll leave it up to her to identify herself if she chooses to, but I can tell you that her company has four stars, may not pay top drawer rates but is no lowballer (fees are $XXX), pays on time and has been spoken of well here.

She mentioned one she had tonight who just called 30 minutes before the signing time to advise that they wouldn't be able to do the signing - even though they got the docs three hours earlier. I'm just passing on what I heard. It does make me wonder, too.

Last month, I got another assignment from a different company and heard from the borrower that they had been scheduled with someone else for noon (I got the call about 12:20) and that notary just didn't show up. I rescheduled it with them for 6:00 pm because there was no way I could print and get there - with docs - within the next few minutes, so he went back to work (a very unhappy camper). They ended up requesting me to handle refi's for two more properties the next day. (This was from a well-paying ss, so that other notary lost out.)

So I'm trying to figure out why this is going on, too. It's possible that late docs may have something to do with it. (How often do we hear that escrow is waiting for final approval on the HUD?) I think there's plenty of blame to go around - and some of it may just be unprofessional notaries. But there are other issues that might come in to play, as well, and I find myself wondering if it might be unrealistic expectations upon notaries by many of the other players in the transaction. (This isn't intended to be directed to the OP or any other party in particular.) I'm going to chew on this some more and may add my thoughts later in another post, as it's an issue that I think most of us frequently deal with on some level.

Reply by Karla/OR on 11/15/11 1:43am
Msg #403972

What is "OP"????????

Hope it's not something simple I'll be embarrassed about! :O) Thanks.

Reply by jba/fl on 11/15/11 4:40am
Msg #403975

Original post(er) or other party. I don't care for this one.

Open to too much interpretation it seems. I don't like texting either, just for this reason. How long does it take to type anyway.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/15/11 5:16am
Msg #403976

Now that you mention this...I noticed over the

past month that I've had a noticeable increase in the number of calls starting out with "sorry this is last minute but our notary bailed on us" or "our notary canceled" - unfortunately I wasn't able to accommodate them.

My first thought? Message is getting across on Notary Rotary about taking the assignment then checking the company out and turn it back if you don't like what you see. Perhaps there's been an epidemic started.

Reply by Notarysigner on 11/14/11 8:38pm
Msg #403943

There are way too many reasons to cancel a signing at the last minute to speculate on whether it's being "professional" or not. However, it is unprofessional to cancel WITHOUT informing the principals. IMO

Reply by Saul Leibowitz on 11/14/11 8:42pm
Msg #403945

Right on that and, in response to an earlier post and based on my earlier work life, it is usually, but not always, the lender who doesn't get docs or HUD approval to the title co. on time.

Reply by Les_CO on 11/15/11 8:23am
Msg #403991

I agree!! If you can’t make it ALWAYS call and someone (SS / Title / borrower) A “no-show” is VERY unprofessional.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/14/11 9:19pm
Msg #403954

If you contract with a notary for a certain time and docs are late, you cannot assume that the notary can accommodate late docs. We have many other clients and we book other closings - if your docs are late it would not be right for the notary to push/delay an appointment for another borrower who has their docs on time. As others have said, it's not the notary's fault that docs are late either, but the notary is expected to remain on call for however long it takes for docs to come through?

Sometimes, if I have no other closings scheduled, I can be flexible with the time if docs are late. Other times, I absolutely cannot due to other closings or other commitments. Do you realize how much time we waste waiting for docs, printing docs only to be told "Oh hold off, loan amount is being revised" or whatever. A simple loan closing can turn into a half day ordeal for us, or one that never comes to fruition after we have waited for docs and even after printing docs sometimes.

I work with two companies that handle loans for the same lender - one is organized, books well in advance, gets docs on time or usually early by gently pushing/requesting for docs from lender, and everything goes smoothly almost every time. The other one, they schedule at the last minute, docs are received at the last moment, and things always seem to be frenzied.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 11/14/11 9:39pm
Msg #403955

I am to the point that if I get called for an AM signing, say 9 or 10, I pretty much demand docs the night before. I am NOT going to get up, get dressed, etc etc and sit for 2 hours waiting for docs that might or might not come. Been there, done that. I WANT to know what I need to do in the morning the night before. It wastes my entire morning waiting.

Reply by Roger_OH on 11/14/11 10:02pm
Msg #403957

In previous discussions on this topic, most of us have an established deadline for receiving docs, and after that time there are no guarantees about making the appointment time.

As with most here, this has happened to me countless times. But I can't imagine cancelling on a BO, unless they had no flexibility whatsoever. It's certainly not their fault the docs are late, and I will always offer to come by later at their convenience to get them done. Sometimes it has been at 10 or 11pm, but I get it done for them.

Reply by janCA on 11/14/11 10:35pm
Msg #403959

I long for the good old days. Docs overnighted to me.

Reply by Buddy Young on 11/14/11 11:10pm
Msg #403968

Re: What can't we have open appointments.

What does it matter if the docs are in the overnight drop in time for pickup.

If we have open appointments, we can ask when the docs are supposed to be delivered and we can schedule with a cushin of time.

Reply by bagger on 11/15/11 9:49am
Msg #404003

Oh hold off, loan amount is being revised"

I had one yesterday, docs were late and I am rushing to keep the appointment.
10 minutes away, the cell phone rings, It's Title "Did you print yet?"
I had them call the BO (he was an attorney) and printed the new HUD, - total difference 1 penny!

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 11/14/11 10:45pm
Msg #403961

Why does it have to be so stressful for all concerned?

I would like to know why, it is not possible, to hold off scheduling the signing, period- until the scheduler actually HAS all the docs, and the signers have had an opportunity to review the HUD
(As per law, they should be allowed to do this, 24 hours in advance, right?). Just because this is "the way it has always been done", is no reason to continue in this counter productive mode.
The signers should be the ones determining when they are available to sign, not some signing service, title office or loan processor. So many times, borrowers are caught unaware, and didn't know until the notary called to confirm, that their loan was actually ready to sign.
This hurry up and wait, does nothing but create ill will, and put the borrowers and notary off schedule.
I do understand that there are times when deadlines (rate locks), need to be met, so things are going to be rushed. But I would bet that 9 times out of 10 that is not the case.

Reply by CJ/Alaska on 11/14/11 11:02pm
Msg #403966

Why notaries might Cancel?

I was out today on other jobs, got a call from a service, "Can you do a POA for tomorrow? Its only 3 pages, zip code was fine, They told me they paid $30 - I confirmed, Its one signer on the POA? They said, Yes thats it.. so I told them to email me the doc and I would call the client when I got home - So I get home, check my email - its 33 pages from the title company with Seller's Settlement Statement, HUD, QC deed, an emailed Demand Request, Authorization for QC, Declaration of Value, Purchaser's Agreement, a 1445 Foreign Investment IRS form, Payoff Authorization, a Grant Deed, UGH! And a cute little note on the instructions that says :
"Special Instructions: We would like to email the POA (3pages) to the Notary at No Charge."

Of course I try to call the phone numbers and they are closed for the evening.

Should I just let them LIE to me about the deal and take it in the seat just so I won't be the bad notary that cancelled the deal?

YES - I am cancelling. But I sent them the email so they would have it first thing when they open in the morning. And they can find someone else.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/14/11 11:20pm
Msg #403969

Re: Why notaries might Cancel?

<<<Should I just let them LIE to me about the deal and take it in the seat just so I won't be the bad notary that cancelled the deal?>>>

Just beat them at their own game. I'd send them an email saying: Someone mistakingly sent me 30 extra pages - NOT SURE WHY as our agreement is for THREE pages - a POA - and the agreed upon fee for THREE pages is $30. I'm just printing the THREE pages and sending those THREE back to you. I don't know about nor agree to this "other stuff".

I'm sure you'll get a phone call for which you can then say: My fee for the rest of this is $XXX but our agreement was for THREE pages and that's ALL I'm having completed. If the hiring party cancels then THEY look like the bad guy!

Reply by CJ/Alaska on 11/14/11 11:24pm
Msg #403970

Re: Why notaries might Cancel?

Thanks! I looked them up in Signing Central ~ In my most humble opinion, they already "Look like the bad guy"! haha!

And in all this, the one Doc I STILL DON'T have is that Single-Party POA!

Reply by CJ/Alaska on 11/15/11 11:06am
Msg #404022

Re: Why notaries might Cancel?

Update: So the SS calls me this morning, just confused & shocked that I was sent 33 pages and (not yet) the POA - the reason for the assignment!
So, she says, "What can you do for me?" WUT?
I'm thinking, this was orchestrated to get me to accept the low fee then Bait n Switch - has to be the SS ~ the Title Co. would have nothing to gain by misrepresenting the deal TO the SS in the first place. - OR - the SS just totally misunderstood the whole deal from the get-go, which would make them sound sort of incompetent.
When I let her know she can go ahead and re-shop the deal, she told me, OKAY, I've had a couple signers call me and ask to take the deal. RIGHT. Notaries call SS's all the time to ASK for work. And if she wanted to know 'What I could do' and she had other signers lined up, I guess that means If I didn't quote an acceptable price, they might give it to the lowest offer!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/15/11 2:46am
Msg #403974

Excellent point, Sheila!! And a great question!

It's something I'd sure like to know, too. I hear from borrowers all the time - and more so lately - the complaint that they would have liked to get the docs in advance to have time to review them. Other times, I hear from borrowers that they've already gone over the HUD, etc. with their LO. So what makes the difference?

I think that somehow it's just become habit for people to want to have the docs signed the second the HUD is approved (barring rate lock and EOM issues, of course, as you said). There are some definite differences between the way some companies handle the flow of the process - and their expectations of us and others - and I'd like to know, too.

Changing this would probably make a huge difference for me because it seems that a huge percentage of the borrowers I get in front of lately are engineers... and they want to pour over every detail of their loan! (These are the kinds of folks who apparently have the mindset and resources to be able to qualify for loans these days - and they're keeping me busy! )

Reply by MW/VA on 11/15/11 7:30am
Msg #403982

Re: Why does it have to be so stressful for all concerned?

I agree with this. This last minute stuff has become the norm, and it is ASSUMED that we will be on call & adjust accordingly to accommodate last minute docs. The biz has slowed, so IMO there is absolutely no reason for this 11th hour frenzy. I've had several signings recenty where docs arrived less than 2 hrs. prior to signing & HUD within an hr. Does anyone understand that I have to print 2 sets of docs & travel to the signing. I do have several cos. that will ask if I am still available if docs run late, but that's the exception.
I have never pulled out of a signing because of the rush-rush-rush, but should have many times.
We're at the end of the food chain, get paid the smallest fees, and yet are expected to rally to get the loan signed no matter what. There's something wrong with this picture.

Reply by Notarysigner on 11/15/11 7:45am
Msg #403987

Re: Why does it have to be so stressful for all concerned?

I often asked if they have the Docs? AND SOMETIMES the scheduler will tell me, "we have a two hour window to get the Docs to the notary". I think they sit on them a lot of times.

Reply by CinOH on 11/15/11 10:31am
Msg #404015

Re: Why does it have to be so stressful for all concerned?

Amen. There is just too much micro-management. Let the notaries and the borrowers set the appointment times. 9 out of 10 borrowers tell me that they wanted to sign at a different time (usually earlier) and far too many are surprised by my call.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/15/11 1:56am
Msg #403973

"This is very unprofessional, when you accept a closing, remember its not the borrowers fault the documents are late, its not the signing company fault and its not evening the Title Company fault. "

Au contraire... the vast majority of the time is *is* the Title company or signing service's fault that documents are late. When company's use me, they know UP FRONT that I have a 4-hour drop dead time for documents... so they can't get all uptight with me when I cancel 4 hours before because they KNEW it would happen.

If, by some miracle I don't cancel... then I am FIRM about charging late doc fees. I have very good reasons for this, and it is hilarious to me when schedulers from across the country get upset by my terms and fees. I swear, I have to tell them over and over that I don't live in a bustling metropolis. I live in the middle of the wide open desert and have to drive 60-90+ minutes to my appointments, to remote areas where there is often little to no cell phone signal. Somehow, the idea of getting documents 10 minutes before an appointment as unacceptable is seriously confusing to them.

My favorites are the ones who pull up the route on Google Maps and assume I can just drive through restricted military bases to get to a location a little faster.

If I cancel or reschedule, it's not a "last minute" issue caused by me... it's because I don't have the tools to do my job, and it's not my fault.

What is unprofessional is scheduling a a closing without having the documents ready to go. What's unprofessional is telling the notary the documents are ready, when, in fact, they are not. What's unprofessional is expecting the notary to wait around until right before the appointment to send documents, thinking it's OKAY for them to arrive late. What's unprofessional is sending them late and then not being available for questions or issues that usually always pop up with super late documents.

Of the notaries I know... none of them would cancel just to cancel. They cancel because they don't have what they need to do a job and they ARE professional enough not to hurt their other clients who *did* manage to have their act together.

I'd say that the ones who cancel last-minute to be jerks or because they're lazy or rude are very few.

Reply by Notarysigner on 11/15/11 9:38am
Msg #404000

I'm with you on this one Marian.

My drop dead time is two hours. At two hours if I don't have the Docs, I let the hiring party know via email and text the signing is in jeopardy and most likely will not be completed....by me. It is very normal to get the Docs five minutes later.

Reply by BBuchler/CA on 11/15/11 3:24pm
Msg #404065

Which begs the question - when is a signing a "normal" and when it is a "rush?" Because anywhere else, getting something done in under 4 hours is a "rush" and you get paid for it. Can you get into your doctor in 4 hours - never in my life. Can I see my tax accountant in 4 hours - never in my life. So why is it expected that we do a very important job with only a 4 hour window? I get doing a general notarization within that timeframe (although I'm very seldom asked to do anything by the public in less than 6 hours), but print out two sets of 200 pages, arrange them in order, double check them and then travel to the site? In 4 hours? Yet we continue to allow this to occur - yes, allow.

I used to do medical transcription and believe me, anything under 24 hours was considered a rush and a premium was paid. 4 hour turnaround - double.

As for canceling, well life does interfer. Kids need to be picked up, other appointments need to be handled, emergencies happen. Professionalism demands we cancel only for just cause, and perhaps we even contact another local notary to handle the assignment. But just like appointments get cancelled by title, sometimes the notary has to cancel. If it is a "trend" with a notary, then something else is going on.

I know that if I'm called while away from home, I will agree until I can double-check NOTROT on their standing in the community. If their "stars" don't align, I will call and cancel. (NOTE: I now have an app to check SS from my cell phone so I don't have to wait until I'm home to look them up).

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 11/15/11 5:13pm
Msg #404071

There's an app? A NR app? Please share details! Thanks n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/15/11 7:30pm
Msg #404106

Yes! Do tell... PLEASE!!!!!! n/m

Reply by Cupguy/Ar on 11/15/11 10:38pm
Msg #404122

What a long thread! I wish I had so many closings that if the docs are late I have to cancel.
I am flexible but what if the borrowers aren't. They have a small window to sign but have to leave to pick up the kids or go to a meeting. If the docs are late the SS wants you to call and explain. Borrowers aren't happy since they have been messing with this for 6-8 weeks. When you get there they are ready to do some chewing but I explain that I am an independent contractor. An unbiased collector of signatures. Anyway, I have done 130-140 closings for a SS so I guess I would not tell them to stick it. But I can't tell you how many times the docs are late. If I make a mistake, 99.5 percent of the time the docs were late, and like somebody said you can't call anybody becuse they will not answer. When I started this that is exactly what I thought I would get the docs call the borrower and set up an appointment to sign but as we know that is not the case