Posted by NJDiva on 11/10/11 1:51pm
Msg #403432

Oh boy! Do I have a good one...

I called to confirm a closing I took this morning for a closing tonight.

The bo proceeds to tell me that it is he and his son that will be signing in addition to his non-borrowing spouse. Okay, no problem.

But THEN he says, "I know you'll be bringing a copy for my son, but I would like that one signed and notarized by you too."...

Okay, so what would YOU do (say)?

Reply by JAM/CA on 11/10/11 1:56pm
Msg #403433

Check with Title or Signing Service and see if they want to pay for a "second" loan to be signed. Have L.O. call the borrower and explain. If L.O. agrees to do this for borrower, charge an additional fee for signing of two loans.

Reply by ME/NJ on 11/10/11 1:57pm
Msg #403434

Only paid for one signed copy and one copy for the borrower. Now if he wants to pay for your time and extra copy that's between you two.

Reply by NJDiva on 11/10/11 2:15pm
Msg #403438

which reminds me Mike...

"Only paid for one signed copy and one copy for the borrower. Now if he wants to pay for your time and extra copy that's between you two."

He said then he'll make copies of just the pages they signed...lol...I told him that there would be no way to do that as we cannot just take those out without having to put the whole package back in order. He THEN stated that he would make a copy of the whole SIGNED package.

Um, er, excuse me, but I don't know how long his COPIER will take to print 130 pages, but um, er...like you said Mike, time is money! I have a feeling it may not be a fast laser.

Besides that there is a bit of a language barrier. I have a concern, too, that this person is going to want to read everything. UUUUUGH, please save me...lol For those who believe, please keep me in your thoughts and prayers...lol

I told him that he needs to consult with his loan officer about that because that would in essence be two closings if we went through and signed two copies.

I just wanted to make sure my annoyance and resistance to it was justified!!!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/10/11 2:18pm
Msg #403440

I'd ask him...

What kind of copier do you have? Because you DO realize this package is 130 (or whatever it is) pages long and your copier needs to be able to handle that....

Bet as soon as he hears 130 pages he changes his mind..

Reply by NJDiva on 11/10/11 2:30pm
Msg #403446

"Bet as soon as he hears 130 pages he changes his mind."

Ah, I wish it were true... I told him that AND that it was legal and letter sized and he said okay.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 11/10/11 2:20pm
Msg #403444

Re: which reminds me Mike...

NEVER let the signed copy out of your hands or your sight! (Unless the hiring agency says it's OK and absolves you in writing ahead of time of any responsibility for whatever happens to those docs between the time you handed them over to this guy and the time they got back to title). Firmly tell him that all copies of signed docs have to come from the lender later. Not at the signing table.

If they want to sign their copy I guess they can do that - but not while you're there. They can sign away all they want or do anything else they want to their copy - but not on your dime.

Reply by Buddy Young on 11/10/11 6:20pm
Msg #403498

Re: Yes, I believe your resistance was justified. n/m

Reply by sheltn on 11/10/11 2:52pm
Msg #403454

Re: Oh boy! Do I have a good one...know the feeling

I have had this happen 3x. Why is it that these people were not very nice?
I got the feeling they did this to act 'tough' This also reminds me of the time
the bo wanted to see my drivers license. They said anybody could get a notary stamp
l.ol. 99% of the time the clients are great.

Reply by Notarysigner on 11/10/11 2:11pm
Msg #403435

There's two ways to handle this. Explain what the process is and let them know they might be able to obtain a signed copy of the Docs from TC. Two, run it past the TC an see if it's okay to honor the borrower's request and receive payment for THAT at the table. IMO

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 11/10/11 2:14pm
Msg #403436

Is he asking you to provide two copies in addition to the signed copy? If this were me, I'd provide them an additional copy (the first one's "free") at the standard fee of $25 payable at the table. (I think I'd run that by the hiring agency as well just to let them know). Or is he asking you to notarize their copy, too? No way would I notarize anything that's going nowhere - it's not needed, it's not going to be recorded, it's just not going to happen. This isn't playland. You're notarizing signatures for a reason. If he wants a copy of the notarized docs he can ask the lender for one when it's all over. I wouldn't want my notary stamp on anything that was just for fun - say, a Deed of Trust that wasn't going to be recorded... yikes!

Reply by NJDiva on 11/10/11 2:18pm
Msg #403441

AAAHHHH!! GOOD ONE GG!

There is a RTC period so you're absolutely right (at least it sounds right to me...lol)!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/10/11 2:19pm
Msg #403442

Beware of payment at the table outside closing not

disclosed previously....that could be trouble.

Reply by Notarysigner on 11/10/11 2:57pm
Msg #403456

Re: Beware of payment at the table outside closing not

In my view, the signing was completed. Any additional work would be GNW, you're already there, you're just notarizing Docs, you could do it fifty times if you wanted as long as they paid you $10.00 per.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/10/11 7:17pm
Msg #403504

UHMMMMMM

"No way would I notarize anything that's going nowhere - it's not needed, it's not going to be recorded, it's just not going to happen."

Not if you're in California. If they request their signature to be notarized, and are willing to pay you for our service then you HAVE to do it. State law. It's not your call about what does or doesn't get notarized.

Refusing to notarize when requested could land you in hot water with the SoS and you could lose your commission.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 11/10/11 7:43pm
Msg #403509

But as a signing agent, shouldn't you realize the potential

ramifications for having a Mortgage/DOT executed in duplicate?

I'm not an NSA per se, but if I was I would definitely check with the LO before complying with that customer's request.

General requests from the public? That's one thing. If you are acting as a signing agent/remote closer/paralegal/etc., you should know better.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 11/10/11 7:44pm
Msg #403511

P.S. Just wanted to thank the heavenly stars that we have

the right to refuse a notarization for just about any reason - even if we just have a "funny feeling" about it.

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 11/11/11 6:44pm
Msg #403644

Re: UHMMMMMM

If you have a previously scheduled appt after him, then he'd have to re-sched for thii second signing - & pay (time travel, etc.)! NP's are public SERVANTS - not SLAVES! JMO

Reply by JulieD/KS on 11/10/11 2:17pm
Msg #403439

If requested, Title will usually make a set of copies of the signed package and send it to the borrower.
I once had a borrower go through the borrower copies a page at a time as we signed originals and he signed the copies and had me notarize. A pain? Yeah. Did I do it? Yeah.

Reply by NJDiva on 11/10/11 2:28pm
Msg #403445

So Julie, in essence you did two closings that night, IMO

I don't hand doc's over to bo's until everything has been executed, and I tell them so before hand. If they want, we can go page by page, but I keep them in MY possession and turn the pages myself.

Reply by JulieD/KS on 11/10/11 2:49pm
Msg #403453

Re: So Julie, in essence you did two closings that night, IMO

NJDiva...It was in my earlier years as a signing agent that I allowed that to happen. I don't hand the BO docs over until the end now, either. I learned that fairly early on.

I learned a lot over the years since I began in 2003. I'm not sure why people think this is an easy, learn-it-in-15-minutes type of business and make a million bucks because it sure isn't.

Reply by NJDiva on 11/10/11 2:58pm
Msg #403457

LOL...Ain't that the truth Julie??? Right there witchya! n/m

Reply by Les_CO on 11/10/11 2:20pm
Msg #403443

Not your call. Have the borrower call his LO and ask if THEY will send a copy to the son. The signed docs are the property on the Lender/Title Company until the deal closes and docs are recorded. The borrower can make copies of his copies to give to the son. I wouldn’t even offer to do that at an increased fee (could change HUD fees). JMO

Reply by NJDiva on 11/10/11 2:37pm
Msg #403449

Thanks everyone! It's so funny how sometimes I question

myself. I figured I'd put it out there and see if my instinct was correct. And it tis!

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 11/10/11 2:43pm
Msg #403450

Having re-read all the responses, I totally agree with Les. It's not your call. You were hired by XYZ to complete a loan signing following standard procedures. You were not hired by this guy to make extra extra copies, notarize his copy, or allow him to copy the notarized copy - or anything else he may dream up.

Let this be a lesson (esp. to me!) - cut these guys off at the pass. Anytime a borrower expects more, don't negotiate, don't engage. Simply say they need to call their LO (or whoever) but you are authorized only to provide one copy and notarize another copy, and you are not authorized to allow him to make copies of signed loan docs. Now, if XYZ wants you to go above and beyond, then that's between you and XYZ.

I think this could all fall under the no good deed category.

Reply by NJDiva on 11/10/11 2:47pm
Msg #403451

Agreed GG! :) n/m

Reply by Karla/WA on 11/10/11 2:48pm
Msg #403452

I agree...I always let them know the extra copy is not a signed copy....and control that package until after the signing is complete. I the borrower asks if they will receive a signed set, I direct them to the lender (and there may be an additional fee). Then, I grab my docs, and leave!

Reply by MW/VA on 11/10/11 3:29pm
Msg #403462

Ditto. n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/10/11 3:04pm
Msg #403459

Love, Les. He's cute, he's smart and wasn't he one

of the Backstreet Boys?

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 11/10/11 3:47pm
Msg #403465

Agree Brenda, Les is very attractive. n/m

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 11/10/11 3:51pm
Msg #403466

How do we know this?

He describes himself only as "presentable" in his profile.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 11/10/11 3:54pm
Msg #403467

I've seen photos of him on the web - I forget where....

should have bookmarked it...sizzling...

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/10/11 4:28pm
Msg #403474

I'm glad you said that Stephanie, I started thinking...

I hope that WAS Les.

I don't know where I saw it either...but, that was my impression.

It's okay, folks...keep moving...nothing to see here. Les is a happily married notary, but girls can look!

Reply by Les_CO on 11/10/11 4:57pm
Msg #403480

Re: I'm glad you said that Stephanie, I started thinking...

I think you gals MUST be mistaking me for someone else!
To be truthful I need to add old and fat to my profile.
I am on Facebook I think the only Leslie Lamont in Castle Rock CO. Shows an old guy with a beard.

Reply by SharonMN on 11/10/11 4:54pm
Msg #403479

I'd try telling him that any copy I leave with them would still not be signed by the lender and have him ask the lender for a completely signed copy. I also remind him of the purpose of notarization and would ask why he and his son would want their own signatures notarized - are they planning to deny it was them that signed later on and refer to their notarized originals as proof that they did?

If the signing was in a location where a high-speed copier/scanner was available, I would not object to waiting for 5 minutes while the borrower made copies of the signed docs. However, I certainly would not wait while they put one page at a time on the $25 inkjet printer/scanner that came with their computer.

If there are multiple borrowers that are not married or otherwise reasonably supposed to share a filing system, I will print everyone their own copy of the loan docs, although I hadn't thought of asking for a bump in pay to do so as it rarely happens.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 11/10/11 8:34pm
Msg #403514

An idea to consider

Consider scanning and emailing the signed pkg to the brw in addition to leaving the unsigned copy.
Docs are in your hands and under your control 100%, and time spent is minimal.
Guy gets copies of his signed docs, everyone should be happy.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/10/11 8:56pm
Msg #403521

Re: An idea to consider

While I agree with those that said a signed copy should come from the TC or lender, I DO think it is generally a good idea for the NSA to scan a completed signed loan package (including the notarial certs) into a secure/password protected file until full payment is received AND clears the banks. This way, if the hiring party alleges that the NSA incorrectly notarized, missed a notarization, missed initials/signatures, or missed a document altogether, the NSA can verify their claims against the scanned package. If the docs in question ARE properly executed and the missing doc in question is NOT part of the original order, the the NSA can tell the hiring party to GO FLY A KITE!.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 11/10/11 10:07pm
Msg #403533

Re: An idea to consider

Nothing wrong with copying the signed loan pkg for our protection to cover most of the examples you gave. However, if a TC sez a doc is missing, you can have all the copies you want; they'll still say you didn't send back the original. No way to get around that.

There have been many times I've been told there's a doc missing in the return pkg, and when we all went back to the original e-mail (which I always keep until I'm paid) the doc was never even sent. They shut up pretty quickly after that.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/10/11 10:27pm
Msg #403536

Re: An idea to consider

<<<There have been many times I've been told there's a doc missing in the return pkg, and when we all went back to the original e-mail (which I always keep until I'm paid) the doc was never even sent. They shut up pretty quickly after that.>>>

THAT was my point. It goes without saying that the signed package IS the totality of all attachments for that loan package.

<<<Nothing wrong with copying the signed loan pkg for our protection to cover most of the examples you gave. However, if a TC sez a doc is missing, you can have all the copies you want; they'll still say you didn't send back the original. No way to get around that.>>>

HUH?!?!

Repeat: *It goes without saying* that the fully executed package EQUALS the totality of all attachments for that loan package.

*It also goes without saying* that if the NSA failed to fully execute (i.e. have signed/initialed, notarized {if applicable} and returned) documents that WERE part of that original order, then the NSA must "right his/her wrong" at his/her expense.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/11/11 2:28am
Msg #403545

Re: An idea to consider

"*It goes without saying* that the fully executed package EQUALS the totality of all attachments for that loan package."

Well, it should, but apparently doesn't always (we've all heard the horror stories about incompetent notaries) - and sometimes it's hard to convince the tc that it's the case. They can claim that it never made the trip back with the other documents - even though we sent it. I've had that happen to me before, but lo and behold, it magically appeared on someone's desk. More often, I've had them claim I missed a document that was never sent to me in the first place.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/11/11 8:20am
Msg #403549

Re: An idea to consider

I'd ask the scheduler which attachment and page number the doc in question is in. If they say the 3rd attachment on page 34, I review that att. Sorry, page 34 is in fact the 9th page of the DOT. I'd send that att back to the scheduler. Can the receiver of an attachment manipulate pages or remove them so they appear not to have been there in the first place? If so then we're all sunk!

Reply by NJDiva on 11/11/11 9:40am
Msg #403559

oops...you responded in the wrong post Lisa

"I'd ask the scheduler which attachment and page number the doc in question is in. If they say the 3rd attachment on page 34, I review that att. Sorry, page 34 is in fact the 9th page of the DOT. I'd send that att back to the scheduler. Can the receiver of an attachment manipulate pages or remove them so they appear not to have been there in the first place? If so then we're all sunk!"

Reply by NJDiva on 11/10/11 9:26pm
Msg #403529

"Consider scanning and emailing the signed pkg to the brw"

and what a fabulous idea it is!!!

Reply by Eve on 11/11/11 8:42am
Msg #403550

I'd feel the same way. As someone just posted, it's not just a labor/money issue. Two signed originals, one left behind? No way. I'd explain the borrower is getting a photocopy of the docs at the signing and a fully executed version will be sent within a short time.

If met with resistance, I'd say, I'm sorry, this is what I've been contracted to do. Please take it up with your _______. Then I'd send a brief email to whomever hired me to give them a heads up, asking to be kept posted if there are any changes to the signing arrangement. And then I'd go about my merry way.

That's a new one on me.

Reply by Eve on 11/11/11 8:47am
Msg #403552

Forgot to mention there are times that I've provided a pdf of the signed docs to the borrower but most are fine with waiting.