Posted by grapebed on 11/8/11 8:49pm
Msg #403206

When it says the word (seal) after a borrowers name...

Hi,

I am doing a closing tomorrow. There is a document that asks for the borrowers signature and right after the signature line is the word (seal). IS that my notary seal?

Thanks in advance for your answer. I appreciate it.

Reply by desktopfull on 11/8/11 9:00pm
Msg #403207

It means simply the borrower signature is the borrower's seal. BTW, who trained you?

Reply by HisHughness on 11/8/11 9:29pm
Msg #403215

***It means simply the borrower signature is the borrower's seal.***

No it doesn't.

As I have pointed out on this forum several times, a sealed signature, depending on what the law of the particular state provides, will either eliminate the necessity for a showing of consideration to validate a contract, or extend the statute of limitations for enforcement of a contract.

Probably most states have eliminated the use of the seal today. If so, it is meaningless after a signature; it neither adds nor subtracts anything, and can essentially be ignored. In those states where it is still used, however, it is indeed significant.

Reply by Les_CO on 11/9/11 1:59pm
Msg #403291

Sorry to more of less have to agree with Hugh. I think all notaries should take some sort class in contract law and agency as it pertains to their State. Just to help them understand their jobs more fully. JMO

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/8/11 9:00pm
Msg #403208

Orange Search Button

Msg #384570

Reply by Rani Sampson on 11/8/11 9:08pm
Msg #403210

Re: Orange Search Button

Also look at message #401301

My state (WA) abolished private seals in 1871. Having (SEAL) after someone's name on a form is an example of people copying old forms without question for year after year. Today I read a document that had a party of the first part and a party of the second part. Sheesh! Sometimes it's OK, in fact preferred, to think a little and update language! (but not when we're performing notarial acts)

Reply by grapebed on 11/8/11 9:18pm
Msg #403213

Thanks very much.

Thanks very much.

Reply by MichiganAl on 11/8/11 9:13pm
Msg #403211

Nope. n/m

Reply by Buddy Young on 11/8/11 9:59pm
Msg #403217

Re: NO!!!!! n/m

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 11/9/11 6:31am
Msg #403224

The term "Seal" dates back centuries when most people were illiterate. The seal was the signature of the nobility. Each noble house had its own seal to identify it. Mine consists of three white herons on a green shield.

As the centuries passed illiteracy continued, and the use of the seal was continued, and many of the states' recording statutes required the use of a seal. In time the word "seal" was substituted for the use of the actual seal in sealing wax.

Corporations generally have seals. When the President or Corporate Secretary signs a document the corporate seal is impressed on the page.

Reply by Eve/VA on 11/9/11 11:57am
Msg #403256

Thanks, Kevin, for being so informative. I knew "Seal" went back centuries but didn't know the history of it.

It's refreshing to see a helpful friendly post on here for a change (as opposed to the repeated rude remarks by a select group, trying to best each other).

Where is the monitoring from NR?

Reply by NJDiva on 11/9/11 12:09pm
Msg #403261

LOL...oops!!!

"It's refreshing to see a helpful friendly post on here for a change (as opposed to the repeated rude remarks by a select group, trying to best each other).

Where is the monitoring from NR?"

You definitely have to be thick skinned. But I can appreciate everyone's input. I love the fact that you gave a nice friendly comment followed by a "take it back."

However in defense of that, you're calling it like ya see's it and for what it is. Doesn't get any "righter" than that, IMO!

Thanks for sharing Eve. Take whatchya need and leave the rest I suppose!

Reply by Eve on 11/10/11 9:18am
Msg #403399

Re: LOL...oops!!!

You are so right ...

Thank you. : )

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 11/9/11 12:53pm
Msg #403268

The client's signature IS their seal in Florida

Florida Statutes 695.07 Use of scrawl as seal.—A scrawl or scroll, printed or written, affixed as a seal to any written instrument shall be as effectual as a seal.

695.08 Prior use of scrawl as seal.—All written instruments heretofore or hereafter made with a scrawl or scroll, printed or written, affixed as a seal are declared to be sealed instruments, and shall be construed and received in evidence as such in all the courts of this state.

Reply by HisHughness on 11/9/11 2:55pm
Msg #403299

Re: The client's signature IS their seal in Florida

No, Robert, that's not what the statute says.

I don't know, and do not intend to spend the time to determine the answer, whether Florida is among the minority of states that still recognize sealed instruments. What the statute is saying is that if instead of an actual seal you use some sort of handwritten inscription to represent a seal, it will serve as well as an actual seal.

Considering the conflicting information dispensed in this thread, EVERYBODY SHOULD BE AWARE:

1. A seal after a signature is NOT just an arachaic hangover from the common law.

2. A seal is NOT just something used by corporations.

3. A seal is NOT your signature.

Some documents in the real estate transactions that you see will almost always have signature lines followed by a seal. There is a reason for that; not necessarily a good reason, but a reason. It is NOT that the document preparers are too lazy to remove it even though it has lost its significance.

The seal is ancient though not necessarily. Originally, an actual physical seal impressed in wax was used. That eventually yielded to just the word "seal" after a signature. The inscription "l/s" also signifies a seal.

In some states which retain the seal, a document under seal has legal ramifications. Either the seal will create a presumption of consideration on a contract, or it will extend the statute of limitations for enforcing the contract, or both.

In most states, the seal and its accompanying legal ramifications have been abolished. In those states, the seal after a signature has no meaning, and thus it doesn't matter whether it is there or not. Consequently, rather than trying to determine on each transaction state-by-state whether to place the seal after a signature, I suspect, though I do not know for certain, that document preparers put it on all documents in all states. That way, they are covered.

Reply by HisHughness on 11/9/11 3:20pm
Msg #403304

Correction

S/B: The seal is ancient though not necessarily >archaic<.