Posted by jnew on 10/30/11 2:52pm
Msg #402214

Affidavits

I was just on the xyz linkedin notary forum. I just had a delightful interchange with a California notary which started with the preprinted dates on documents differing with the date of the notarial act. My contention was that if an affidavit has a date which is not part of the notary certificate, it is not my responsibility to change the date or for that matter even having to deal with it. She stated that since the date of the document was not the date it was signed, it was a fraud and that she would legally be liable for being complicit by accepting the sworn statement and completing, signing and sealing the jurat. Does the State of California actually leave it to the acumen of the notary to determine if an affidavit prepared by the lender is fraudulent or not? Is not the whole idea of a sworn statement to get the affiants to swear the truth of the statement contained within it. I asked if she could show me the statute or the section of the California handbook that determined this. It was repeatedly pointed out to me that I am an outside notary which implies that anything I say about California practices is out of my domain and is just my own opinion. The question I have is this. Should a notary expand the duties of a notary beyond what is shown in the state notary statutes or state notary handbook?

Reply by HisHughness on 10/30/11 3:00pm
Msg #402215

***Should a notary expand the duties of a notary beyond what is shown in the state notary statutes or state notary handbook?***

No, but there's really no need even to reach that question if the notary does not engage in fruitless discussions with other notaries who don't know their acknowledgement from a hole in the ground.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/30/11 3:06pm
Msg #402216

"It was repeatedly pointed out to me that I am an outside notary which implies that anything I say about California practices is out of my domain and is just my own opinion."

Sounds like a discussion *I* had a couple weeks ago - I guess notaries are only supposed to be able to read and understand their own state's handbooks and laws and their interpretation of reading of any other state's manual and laws is automatically speculation.

hmph..

Reply by dickb/wi on 10/30/11 3:24pm
Msg #402218

look at the forum she was on....the xyz notary is ignorant..

of notary law...the dates on the docs are not her worry.....just the date on the notary block..she is now on the verge of upl...jmho....i am not an atty yada yada.........

Reply by desktopfull on 10/30/11 4:18pm
Msg #402220

Perfect example why you don't join their org. n/m

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 10/30/11 8:45pm
Msg #402225

Depends on your state

In Florida, notaries are authorized to "take affidavits". To "take an affidavit" is to take the sworn statement and reduce it to writing. IMO, the affidavit itself - except for the statements to which the signer is swearing - is the responsibility of the notary. I would not notarize an affidavit that was pre-dated or post-dated. An acknowledgment is a different story.

When in doubt, check with your SOS. If your SOS can't answer, consult with an attorney. You may say that attorneys don't know about notary law, but at least if you have legal advice you can support your practices.

Reply by MikeC/TX on 10/31/11 12:45am
Msg #402228

Re: Depends on your state

"In Florida, notaries are authorized to "take affidavits". To "take an affidavit" is to take the sworn statement and reduce it to writing. IMO, the affidavit itself - except for the statements to which the signer is swearing - is the responsibility of the notary. I would not notarize an affidavit that was pre-dated or post-dated."

Why not?

I agree with you that a notary cannot take a jurat on a document dated in the future (how can one swear to something that hasn't happened yet?). But if someone comes to you with a document dated 3 days, 3 months, or 3 years ago and is willing to swear TODAY that the facts in the document are true, what FL law prohibits you from taking their oath?

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 10/31/11 8:09am
Msg #402235

Re: Depends on your state

An affidavit has to be signed in my presence the same day it is sworn to. Further, depending on how the affidavit is drafted, it may be written from the notary's perspective - which is the usual form - and nothing within that certificate can be false or the notary commits a third degree felony.

Reply by desktopfull on 10/31/11 11:02am
Msg #402245

Do explain when the content or wording of an affidavit

became the pervue of a notary in FL? The date is irrelevant of when the doc was prepared, we are notarizing the signature of the signer, period. The date in the notarial certificate is the only relevant date, because the notary is stating that the doc was signed in front of him/her on that date.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 10/31/11 11:55am
Msg #402252

Certainly

When an affidavit begins with "Before me, the undersigned authority, on this 31st day of October, 2011, personally came and appeared John Doe, who, being first by me duly sworn, deposes and says", this is a part of the notarial certificate and is the pervue of a Florida notary, and the date in this example is definitely the notary's responsibility.

If you don't agree with this please consult with the Governor's office, who shares the same interpretation as I do.

Reply by desktopfull on 10/31/11 3:32pm
Msg #402290

Re: Certainly

Your talking about the acknowledgement wording, totally different from what the discussion is about.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 10/31/11 3:41pm
Msg #402292

NO, I'm not talking about the ack. wording

If an affidavit starts with the preamble I stated (which involves an oath, never an acknowledgment), that wording is part of the notarial certificate. If the date in that certificate is incorrect, it must be corrected.

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/31/11 9:21am
Msg #402238

You guys are talking 2 different things here. n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/31/11 9:33am
Msg #402240

In Calif. The notary fills in the date on the Ack or Jurat the service was provided, period.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 10/31/11 10:46am
Msg #402241

I would have signer resign in affidavit in my presence

after I have taken signer's oath; I would also have signer insert the date she is resigning and I am notarizing (current date).
For an affidavit the notarization must occur at the time signer is given an oath and signs the document.

Period.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 10/31/11 10:48am
Msg #402242

he/she n/m

Reply by HisHughness on 10/31/11 11:25am
Msg #402248

Re: I would have signer resign in affidavit in my presence

Stephanie you've missed the point of the discussion. Nobody’s talking about a pre-signed affidavit, or anything pertaining to the notarial certificate. They are talking about pre-dating the body of the instrument.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 10/31/11 11:59am
Msg #402253

which is presumed to be the day the signer signed it... n/m

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 10/31/11 12:55pm
Msg #402264

I didn'y miss the point;

I said I would have signer insert current date....
the date of the resign.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 10/31/11 12:56pm
Msg #402266

Re: I didn't miss the point; n/m

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 10/31/11 12:55pm
Msg #402265

Re: I would have signer resign in affidavit in my presence

I would also have signer insert the date he/she is resigning and I am notarizing (current date).

Reply by HisHughness on 10/31/11 7:11pm
Msg #402318

Read the OP, Stephanie

No one has signed anything. The question pertains to affidavits with preprinted dates. Nothing about a signature.