Posted by Linda_in_MI on 10/4/11 11:11am
Msg #399579

Another viewpoint/discussion on docs on CD

I know both pro and cons of copies on CD has been discussed here before, but those discussions usually centered on the notary putting copies on CDs. The following question was posed in a real estate forum by the borrower. The general tone of the answer in the forum was to notify the title agency involved, both local and national offices. And check your credit. The response continued with advice that the borrower had no way to tell if this was an isolated incident, and to continue with other potential actions against the title would be a judgement call on the part of the borrower.

Here is my question to other notaries (and I think I know the responses already). If, while sitting at the table, you found out that from borrower received a CD with documents for a total stranger instead of their information, would you do anything else other strongly recommend that borrower contact the Title office?

>Two weeks ago I refinanced my house. The title company gave me a CD with all the signed >documents. Two days ago I looked at it for the first time and discovered the disc did not >contain my documents but those of another couple who closed on the same day. I saw their >full names, address, incomes, SSNs, DOBs, all their credit card information and other personal >financial information.

>I contacted the title company immediately because I feared it had given my information to >someone else. They claim my information was not given to anybody else. I have since >destroyed the disc I received. My concern is that the title company doesn't seem to think it's >as big a deal as I do. Any suggestions?

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/4/11 11:18am
Msg #399582

I certainly think it's a big deal

As to suggestions--heh, nope. Can't think of a single way to prove that what the TC said isn't the truth--until bad stuff starts happening. Maybe that B can insist the TC pay for a year's worth of credit monitoring. Think that's what has been done in the past when crucial info has been compromised.

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/4/11 11:23am
Msg #399585

I would be contacting the borrowers on that CD to alert them I had their CD in error and would be forwarding it to them. That will also present you with the opportunity to find out if they received your info by mistake.

They could decide for themselves if they wanted to do something about it. That's what I would do.

The "Title company" didn't make the mistake, someone working for them did. Someone would would likely get fired for doing so. I would have a problem causing them to lose their job because of that type of mistake. IMO

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 10/4/11 12:18pm
Msg #399593

My experience with somewhat similar situations is that the guilty party always acts like it's no big deal and assures the offended party that their personal info is not in anybody else's hands, though there is no way to prove or disprove it by either party, it seems. (One time I opened an account online, and the bank mailed me a bunch of sign-up info, only it was for some guy in another state. It had his social, address, DOB, etc . and I know my info went to someone else, but when I called the bank, they acted all ho-hum). Over the years I've seen other people's loan docs mixed in with the ones I'm having signed. And, again, nobody seemed to care. I think they're trained to act that way.

In any case, the fact the docs were on a CD is not the point - they could have just as easily sent you a printed copy of somebody else's loan and not noticed that either. Or e-mailed you somebody else's docs (how many times has that happened to us anyway? We're waiting for the Smith docs for Idaho and here come the Jones docs for Gerogia... )

Anyway I have no idea what you could/should do. I'd be tempted to alert the borrowers on the CD- but you said you already destroyed it. The TC will obviously never tell you the truth about your info .... I like the idea of a year's worth of free credit monitoring for both you and the CD borrowers - with threats to report the TC to the Dept of Insurance if they don't cooperate. I think the regulatory agencies frown on this sort of stuff. I know they have stomped some TCs for throwing out loan docs in the backlot garbage bin, not even bothering to shred.

As far somebody getting fired at the TC for this mistake - heck, there'd be nobody working at any TC if they fired workers over lax privacy issues like this ...

Reply by taxpro on 10/5/11 1:30pm
Msg #399689

A few years ago, I was asked to represent a tax client in an IRS audit. I obtained a POA and asked the auditor to send me the information on the client. Lo and behold, I received a whole file of information on some other taxpayer who was also being audited by this IRS agent.

When I called and told her what she had done, she just said "oh sorry, I'll send you the right info", as if it was no big deal that she had released a taxpayer's private information.

The TC employee is hoping that you won't make a big deal out of it, and it'll just go away. As a tax preparer and enrolled agent, I could be punished severely for making the same mistake. It is illegal for us to release a client's info without a release form signed by the client. I've had clients call from their lender's office and ask me to fax a copy of their tax return, and can't do it until they fax me the signed release form.

It is definitely a big deal. Believe it or not, there are <Shock warning> unscrupulous notaries out there!!

Reply by TishNotary on 10/4/11 12:18pm
Msg #399594

I'd downplay it as much as possible

The issue can go either away. Great idea about insisting the TC pay for a year's worth of credit monitoring Lee/AR. That would make the borrowers feel as if they're not dropping the matter entirely. At the same time, it would bring a sense of closure to the affair - God willing.

As trusted professionals in our field, we have the ability to incite or deaden matters of contention when things don't go quite as they should. It's a litigious society we live in. I wouldn't want to encourage contribution in any way.

Imagine if we were the offenders and caused the error directly. Aside from being super careful to not (ever) let it happen again, we'd be hoping that as little drama as possible ensued. I was a bank manager for a number of years and saw some crazy stuff come across my desk. My approach was to remain calm and portray confidence in the notion that things would be alright. That was the actual outcome 99.9% of the time that I knew of. :o)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/4/11 6:38pm
Msg #399638

great post, Tish

"we have the ability to incite or deaden matters of contention when things don't go quite as they should"

So true. While we don't want to be involved in sweeping anything under the rug, we don't want to fan a flame, either. Contacting the other borrower would feel a bit over the line to me. Ultimately, it's the tc's responsibility. I think our responsibility ends with letting them know in a situation like this. I also agree with the idea of them paying for credit monitoring. Wouldn't hurt to suggest that to the tc as a possibility for them to consider, but I wouldn't want to get in the middle of that with the other borrower.

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/4/11 7:48pm
Msg #399644

Credit monitoring only deals with a fraction of identity theft and kind of useless when someone has your entire personal portfolio. If someone's info is compromised, besides the cc companies, they need to contact the DMV, the SS Administration, their bank, their healthcare provider, and file a police report. Not at all going overboard to file a police report.

People don't realize that your medical benefits can be stolen - and what if the crook did use your medical benefits, replacing his/her personal info with yours? You're bloodtype B negative, and allergic to several meds, the crook is type A positive and not allergic to any known meds, YOU get in an accident and the emergency personnel are treating you based on the crooks medical history!

The crook gets a fake ID with his picture and your info, racks up lots of moving violations which obviously go unpaid and turn into warrants, you're driving along and get pulled over then YOU"RE arrested and your car is impounded because of what the crook did! Those were not hypothetical situations but very real events for victims of identity theft.

So to answer the OP's question, I (the notary at the table) would speak to the borrowers as if not only did they get someone else's private info, but it is highly *likely* that someone got theirs - therefore, they need to not only notify the TC and the person who's personal info they got, but they really should start monitoring THEIR own affairs, contacting the all the agencies I mentioned above. I personally know identity theft victims and one friend said that identity theft is worse than being shot because it's an ongoing nightmare.