Posted by Molly Richardson on 10/28/11 8:40am
Msg #402044

Hesitant To Ask....Missing Something Here?

I am hesitant to ask "my fellow associates" about something after the last thread comment I made.....but let me stick my hand into the fire one more time....

I completed a refinance that required the clients to sign once as individuals and once as trustees.
As I complete the "notarization" section, I only insert the clients names....without notation of trustee or individuals. The work was done for an attorney out of MD.

The attorney email'd me yesterday asking if I could email him "giving him authorization to add language on the Deed of Trust - Notary section"....adding as individuals along with all the trustee verbage. He stated the recorder wouldn't take the document without the change of wording.

I responded that I was duly authorized to notarize an individual and not in the capacity that the individuals holds....????

Am I missing something here?

Reply by CopperheadVA on 10/28/11 8:46am
Msg #402045

I am not in CA, but my understanding from reading posts here on NotRot is that CA notaries cannot add any type of "capacity" verbiage - only the person's name can be in the notary certificate. But better to wait and hear from a CA notary than take my advise.

Here in VA, we are not prohibited from adding capacity verbiage.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 10/28/11 8:48am
Msg #402047

Oops - meant "advice" n/m

Reply by Molly Richardson on 10/28/11 9:01am
Msg #402050

Thanks....

I knew that...just needed to hear it from others. Sometimes that is necessary...

[e-mail address] are you located in VA?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/28/11 8:48am
Msg #402046

Nope..you're not- the notarization was done in

CA and was, therefore, done pursuant to CA notary law. You notaries are not allowed to include capacity in your certificates. Even more, this *attorney* is not authorized to change your certificates!!!

Send him a copy of the page out of your manual or your statutes that shows you are not allowed to certify capacity in your certs and make sure your provide him with a written statement that he is NOT authorized to make any changes to your cert. That could be a world of trouble in the future for you if he adds the capacity and your SOS gets wind of it.

Ugh...attorneys sometimes set me nuts.

Reply by Carmela Arndt on 10/28/11 9:02am
Msg #402051

Re: One more thing Molly, I would add a notation in your

Journal as to what he wanted to do, just in case he goes ahead and changes it.

Reply by Molly Richardson on 10/28/11 9:04am
Msg #402052

Absolutely perfect idea! I will do that.... n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/28/11 9:06am
Msg #402053

Save his e-mail too - AND your negative response to it. n/m

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 10/28/11 9:13am
Msg #402054

Dont know if it is kosher in CA. but I have seen,

and used, ack forms with a section "below the line" where you can indicate the
"capacity claimed by signer" to include such things as trustee, corporate officer , attorney in fact, partner, etc.
These are loose ack forms , and also have a section describing the document to which to form refers including type of instrument , date of instrument, number of pages, and past or future signers of the instrument whom you are not notarizing

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/28/11 9:20am
Msg #402056

Re: Dont know if it is kosher in CA. but I have seen,

Bob, the Ca All Purpose Acts don't have that on it but I use Acks with "optional" wording such as title, number of pages, date, capacities claimed by signer.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 10/28/11 11:59am
Msg #402079

Bob, hi Bob, is correct - I have a current CA All-Purpose

Acknowledgment in my hand and it does, in the optional section have an area to have the Signer's Name and below a liost of Capacity (ies) claimed by the Signer (s), with boxes that can be checked.
-Individual
-Corporate Officer - Title (s)
-Partner - Limited/General
-Attorney in Fact
-Trustee
-Guardian or Conservator
-Other

James - I have the current California All-Purpose Acknowledgment right in front of me and it does have what Bob, hi Bob, indicates.

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/28/11 12:43pm
Msg #402083

The official one is on page 11 of the handbook, all the

other variations derive from it.

I use two different ones modified by NR posters in California because I like the borders (on one) and the font on the other, they are more attractive. I've seen one Ca all purpose ACK from the NNA but I think the print is too small.

Those Acks are sold in 50 sheet pads, I just prefer mine. I think Marian mentioned that her's are numbered even. As long as you have the Official one, everything else is "optional".

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/28/11 9:15am
Msg #402055

page eleven CA notary handbook 2011

" A notary public may complete a certificate of acknowledgment required in another state or jurisdiction
of the United States on documents to be filed in that other state or jurisdiction, provided the form does
not require the notary public to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular representative
capacity or to make other determinations and certifications not allowed by California law. "

Reply by Molly Richardson on 10/28/11 9:20am
Msg #402057

Esq responded that he would NOT change the verbage...

great news...but as suggested. I will keep all correspondence and make full
notation in my notary journal. Thanks again

Reply by HisHughness on 10/28/11 10:04am
Msg #402067

Molly, this is no fun at all

You came, you asked, you got your answer, and there was no flaming. Takes all the joy out of it.

Glad the group could help. And pat yourself on the back for having the spunk, and for caring enough about your profession, to come back for help after you got flamed the last time.

Reply by NJDiva on 10/28/11 10:19am
Msg #402069

Wow Hugh, could your heart be softening but

a little? lol

Actually, I thought the same thing...well, I didn't think the SAME thing-because G*d forbid I EVER think exactly like you, (where the hail do some of those things come from?) although would that ALWAYS be a bad thing?...rofl...

Hmmph, I think there are way too many questions in this post. Rather than you get on a rant, I'll stop now!! LMAO

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/28/11 2:56pm
Msg #402096

Re: page eleven CA notary handbook 2011

It's because of this statement that I've excluded any mention of capacity in the optional section of my own notary certificates. (I've created them myself using Word, so I can include my name, title, commission expiration and county info, year, etc. and not have to write that all in every time. And I can print extra copies whenever I need them.)

To me, it feels like I'd be thwarting the intent of the verbiage to not include it in the actual certificate part, but just add it at the bottom. If you do that, it's still there on the page. I might check off capacity of signer on those separate forms that come tc's want us to fill out with our contact info, etc., but I won't be putting capacity anywhere on any notary certificates. I suppose it's OK to use the pre-printed ones that happen to have a place to check off capacity, but I just wouldn't complete it. On the other hand, it would be very simple for someone else to check off one of those boxes after the fact...

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/28/11 3:18pm
Msg #402098

I agree, but what I don't use I draw a line thru n/m

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 10/28/11 10:57am
Msg #402075

Good job Molly! If he needs to add an additional

page to the set of docs, that is up tohim.
You are completely correct we cannot include the capacity of the signer in California.
As I stated above, since he is an attorney, if he requires the verbage, he can draw up a doc stating so.
I'm glad you stood your ground.
I have found that many attorneys believe they are so educated on Notarial Law.
Molly - if you follow the California notary Laws outlined in the 2011, you will be running your business in complete compliance with the law.
I'm glad you asked this question.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary/forms/notary-handbook-2011.pdf

The link above is a link to the 2011 CA notary Handbook.
Print it out and follow it.
Have a good day.
Stephanie

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/28/11 11:15am
Msg #402076

regarding the Ca handbook..

Instead of printing it out, you can also download the handbook (PDF) then email it to yourself. By doing so whenever you need to look at the handbook, you can access your email from your smartphone, select the email with the handbook attachment, click on the PDF and bingo, you got your handbook .

I've used it that way a couple of times to show GNW clients "why" I couldn't do what they wanted.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 10/28/11 11:46am
Msg #402078

Re: regarding the Ca handbook..True,

providing she has a smartphone.
Either way, it's important to have access to the CA notary Handbook.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 10/28/11 1:22pm
Msg #402086

great idea James! n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/28/11 5:09pm
Msg #402118

Re: regarding the Ca handbook..

I don't know if this is still the case, but you used to be able to request a printed, bound copy for free from the SOS office just by sending them a pre-addressed, stamped envelope that's large enough to hold the booklet. (9" x 6" should do it.) It looks a little more "official" when you show it to someone - and takes up less space!

BTW, I also have that website bookmarked on my pc for easy reference.

Reply by MW/VA on 10/28/11 2:18pm
Msg #402087

Thanks, Molly. IMO this was a great thread. I can't quite

understand what the attorney was after. I've seen where they sign their names twice, once as individuals & then as trustees. Regardless of capacity, it's the same person appearing before you.
Kudos to you for checking it out.
BTW, I have a situation now where the borrowers are being asked to resign a Note & DOT because of the verbage. The original one didn't have them sign with the verbage "individual" and "trustee" after their name. Apparently there were issues in getting it recorded without the specific verbage.
We learn something new every day. Thanks again. :-)

Reply by Buddy Young on 10/28/11 5:00pm
Msg #402115

Re: Excelent question Molly, good thread. n/m