Posted by LeeA on 10/7/11 2:11am
Msg #399870

Need your Advice on this situation

A notary goes to a closing, the instructions says do not change to any documents without calling the title company or signing company. The notary decides to change the dates on the documents, (its a purchase) without calling either company. Then she forgets to change the date on the Notary Section of the Mortgage to the correct date. The borrower signs the actual date of the signing, and the notary section says the day before.

Now notary refuse to go back out and fix their errors, for two reasons, one she says its backdating to date the acknowlegement for the day she witness them signing it. And second she going on vacation.

The Signing Company and the title states this is not backdating because the notary actually witness them sign the document on the date. The Notary contacts several notaries and they tell her this backdating. So she refuses to fix the issue, until she gets back from her Vacation.

Lender has not funded the loan, and the borrower might have to move out of the new home because of this issue.

What your opinion on this?

Reply by Susan Fischer on 10/7/11 2:41am
Msg #399871

Gobsmacked! Notary screwed up royally. Neither reason

resonates with any sense. Doubt any insurance policy would defend such Notary's 'performance' of her statutory duty. I cite "The borrower signs the actual date of the signing, and the notary section says the day before" as my basis.

Jmho, adr.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/7/11 4:47am
Msg #399872

The notary is right in that it would be backdating...notary certs are dated the day the signers appear before the notary - not the day before or the day after.

IMO, that's the only thing the notary is right about - I'm surprised the company even wants to give it back to that notary to handle. Better to get another notary who knows what they're doing, get the package resigned correctly and move along - since it was for a purchase, immediate funding will still apply - just need to get it done and fund a.s.a.p. If lender and title get their act together and get this package out no one will have to move out (can always schmooze the Seller with a few days' use and occupancy payment) - but there's no time to waste.

Hope this notary had some type of liability insurance because someone's going to be eating some per diem interest fees *and* any other fees incurred as a result of their mishandling of the loan package - and I'm sure it won't be the borrower.

JMO and keep us posted - very interesting.

Reply by LeeA on 10/7/11 12:20pm
Msg #399919

She had already backdated. They just wanted to change the documents to reflect the actual date she watch them sign the document.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/7/11 1:32pm
Msg #399928

No, she didn't backdate - she made a mistake...

What she's telling you now is if she goes back out for a re-sign after the fact, her certs have to reflect the actual date they stand in front of her and sign the second package - to put the original date on the paperwork would be backdating, and she's right.

Same in FL - if I make a mistake in my cert I cannot fix it later - it's against our notary laws. I must go back out and re-visit the signers and my cert must bear the new date.

If I were the lender I would not wait until the 12th for her return - I'd reassign it, get it done and no, she would not be paid since she made unauthorized changes to the package and made a mistake in her notarization, rendering the loan "unfundable" (?a word??)...

Get her E&O carrier info for the cert she made the mistake on; find out if she has NSA ins or professional liability insurance. There may also be a claim against her bond for that notarial error.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 10/7/11 6:19am
Msg #399873

always 3 sides ...

So, she gets a purchase pkg dated the day before actual signing - this is not her error. She didn't contact anyone regarding the pkg date issue - that is her error.

She has the pkg signed & dated with the actual date - in effect, she is correcting someone else's error (albeit w/out their directive) - but misses one, and it happens to be an important one.

The REALLY BIG 'error' is on the part of the RE Agent, IMO. No RE Agent in their right mind would turn over keys on a purchase that is not yet funded. This is RE 101, and someone's about to learn a very hard lesson there.

Lots of errors here, some with easy fixes (like getting the mtg re-signed) and some with potentially serious consequences (turning over the keys). So now all fingers point to the notary, because correcting her error in correcting the first error is the easiest fix for everyone else's errors.

She should've called for a directive, and should've had the mtg resigned (legally, and not via illegal back-dating). She should've stepped up to the plate - along with everyone else.

Reply by 101livescan on 10/7/11 7:23am
Msg #399877

This notary needs to honker down and learn what her job is, and not over think her responsibilities at the table. Horrible, if this were my loan I'd be pissed. And then not be willing to fix it no matter what (not including backdating). Scary that this is our competition.

Reply by MW/VA on 10/7/11 7:30am
Msg #399879

No excuses--this notary screwed things up. IMO it's that

kind of performance that keeps the rest of us fighting for credibility in our industry.
Won't backdate, huh-that's exactly what she did in the first place--dated her certificate for the day before. She should have called before proceeding.
Generally, we don't care what date is on the docs. The signers use the current date, and we notarize the current date--period!
It looks like a potential lawsuit to me, since there is a lot at stake on this one.
I'm with Renee in that possession isn't usually given until the loan is funded.

Reply by desktopfull on 10/7/11 8:51am
Msg #399895

I hope the notary has a large liability policy or E&O bond. n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/7/11 9:52am
Msg #399905

>>>>> A notary goes to a closing, the instructions says do not change to any documents without calling the title company or signing company. <<<<<<<<

End of story, my opinion. Get another notary (someone who knows their responsibilities). Of course there could be the fact that a professional fee will have to be offered instead.

Reply by LeeA on 10/7/11 12:19pm
Msg #399918

Re: Need your Advice on this situation- More Information

First of all the Notary was paid $125 for a one side purchase. It was a foreclosure purchase.
I agree the Realtor should of not given the keys. However we have no control over that.

The Notary still refuses to fix the Mortgage until she gets back from Vacation. Which will be Wednesday the 12th. She closed this on September 30, 2011, left today. We have tried to get her to fix for two days. And she refuses because it is backdating. The truth is she already backdated and we were trying to get her to fix the error to the date she actually witness the borrower sign the Mortgage. (However she agreed to backdate it when she gets back.

So the Signing Company is eating the interest on the loan, the complete closing fee, the additional, the additional taxes and any additional fees that are occurred by the lender and the title company.
Plus pay for the new Notary to resign the loan. This is estimated to cost the Signing company about 600 dollars, And not getting paid at all because they believe doing what right to make the customer happy. (this is what a good signing does to make sure the loan closes and the borrower does not cost them the house). So remember when you are looking at documents and making decisions that it can and will effect your clients bottom line. That is why it says call the title company or the signing company prior to making any change.

The lender as finally agreed to have someone else signe the complete documents again.

And the Notary who made the mistake still expects to be paid.

So remember to double check and triple check your work. Because, Now this Notary, has lost one of her biggest clients, and has told the Signing Services they were asking her to commit Fraud.

Reply by Scriba/NM on 10/8/11 3:54pm
Msg #399970

This is exactly what I have been railing about for years. Companies hire idiots, imbeciles and morons to perform loan signings. (Yes, there is a difference and they are not derogatory terms - they were the norm for years and years in psychiatric circles - let's not miss the point here as some undoubtedly will). On with the message.

Companies deserve what they get if they don't check out the notary. The notary described is a bumbling idiot who obviously can't follow standard procedures and shouldn't even be performing any kind of notarizations (much less loan signings) as far as I'm concerned.

Some companies are now keeping score cards and report cards on notaries (about 9 years too late) and others won't because it's just too much trouble. Some companies have (what seems like) 12 year-olds calling newbie notaries for appointments, not caring whom they hire - just how much low-balling they can get away with and of course the newbies take the signings for $40 and promptly screw up the signing.

Then we (the normal SA set) receive oceans of instructions (remember to take a bath or shower......don't pick your nose at the signing.......don't wear your bathing suit.......don't take your dog to the signing....don't be texting during the signing (texting????)......incredibly stupid stuff that actually happens!)

96% of the time, I stick with the same eight companies I have been with for the last five or six years - they know me, I know them, I do their work, they pay me, that's the way it should be.
Once in a while I will get adventurous and spend the time to vet a new company when called but usually I can't or won't waste the time.

Unfortunately, this business, this industry, is changing and not for the better as evidenced by this post and this only scratches the surface. All you have to do is read these posts - they say it all.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/10/11 4:57pm
Msg #400084

My thoughts go along the same lines, although I don't think I'd be as harsh with describing the notary in question... but ignorant, incompetent and unprofessional?? Absolutely.

As for the sentiment about hiring "ignorant, incompetent and unprofessional" notaries, I think that is right on point. Companies that pay low-ball fees and send out anyone they can find who will accept them, should be sure that they keep enough money in their reserves to cover these types of situations because they are more and more likely to get them.

And I agree that she was wrong (unless perhaps she was in Florida or a state with similar requirements) about thinking that it would be back-dating to correct her certificate to reflect the correct ACTUAL date that the borrowers signed the document and appeared before her. This person clearly doesn't get it, IMO, and the scariest part is that she claimed that other notaries agreed with her. (Although they probably agreed with her interpretation of events...)