Posted by HisHughness on 10/27/11 7:22am
Msg #401888
Query
Does a faculty card with picture and signature from a state university meet the criteria for a government-issued ID?
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 10/27/11 8:10am
Msg #401891
No
While a state university may be funded by the state, it is not a government agency and is therefore not capable of issuing government identification.
| Reply by HisHughness on 10/27/11 9:46am
Msg #401904
Okay........
Staff ID card for Department of Family and Children's Services. Has picture and signature of staffer, name of state agency.
Does that meet the criteria of government-issued ID?
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 10/27/11 11:57am
Msg #401943
But you were not asking about a DCF ID...
but since you asked, my answer would be that it depends on the laws of your state. If your laws say that a notary can accept any goverment-issued photo ID, then yes, the DCF ID would probably meet that requirement because it is issued by the government.
Would not fly in Florida and many other states.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 10/27/11 4:14pm
Msg #401967
Re: But you were not asking about a DCF ID...
Robert, that was our point. We know it would not fly in Florida; but I thought you took exception to me calling a university a state agency...and our laws specifically say governmental agency.
==================================================================
Should a Notary Public Rely Only on a Credit Card in Determining the Identification of a Signer?
No. If the signer is not personally known by the Notary Public or identified by a credible witness, the Notary Public must use an identification card issued by a governmental agency or a passport issued by the United States to identify the signer.
========================================
Tex. Gov't. Code Ann. § 406.014 requires that a Notary Public maintain a record book. This record book must be maintained whether or not any fees are charged for your notary public services.
A notary public other than a court clerk notarizing instruments for the court shall keep in a book a record of: (1) the date of each instrument notarized; (2) the date of the notarization; (3) the name of the signer, grantor, or maker; (4) the signer's, grantor's, or maker's residence or alleged residence; (5) whether the signer, grantor, or maker is personally known by the notary public, -------->>>was identified by an identification card issued by a governmental agency or a passport issued by the United States, <<<--------or was introduced to the notary public and, if introduced, the name and residence or alleged residence of the individual introducing the signer, grantor, or maker; (6) if the instrument is proved by a witness, the residence of the witness, whether the witness is personally known by the notary public or was introduced to the notary public and, if introduced, the name and residence of the individual introducing the witness; (7) the name and residence of the grantee; (8) if land is conveyed or charged by the instrument, the name of the original grantee and the county where the land is located; and (9) a brief description of the instrument.
| Reply by Notarysigner on 10/27/11 9:54am
Msg #401906
Texas Civil practice and remedies code chapter 121
| Reply by NJDiva on 10/27/11 10:11am
Msg #401916
What does your state handbook say?
tee hee...lmao
| Reply by Bob_Chicago on 10/27/11 10:13am
Msg #401917
Believe that it would be ok in Illinois. Student ID or
emplyoee ID would probably be ok also.
"Agency" , IMO, is a broad term. Do not believe that a local school ID would qualify though.
Prior to passage of this "temporary" law a few years back, the standard was "on the basis of identification documents"
I used some pretty wierd ID documents if I was sure of the signer's identity.
In the case of NSA work, you must also consider the Patriot Act" requirements of the lender .
(3) is identified on the basis of identification documents. Until July 1, 2013,
identification documents are documents that are valid at the time of the
notarial act, issued by a state or federal government agency, and bearing
the photographic image of the individualʼs face and signature of the individual
| Reply by BrendaTx on 10/27/11 11:54am
Msg #401942
Hugh,
I believe that it does meet the criteria for government-issued ID as long as it has signature and picture, plus the official seal of the agency/school.
I might be told otherwise by the SoS, but I think that IF push came to shove there are sufficient definitions and rulings to show that faculty of state-supported universities are state employees and that state-supported schools are also agencies of the state.
As an employee of one of those universities, I know that this is not as cut and dried as one might think. "Education" is only one part of what goes on in UT and TAMU. Within each of those schools are agencies that are established under federal statute and state law THE State Chemist's Office and THE State SomeTypeofSpecial Research Agency, so on and so forth. I've got four pages from the IRS, et al, that pretty much lays it out.
Would love to see where there is a definitive answer for this and will pursue it at some point.
In the meantime, there are as many of these types of references as you would like to spend time hunting for. I only put in three.
1
A professor at a state-supported university is an employee of the state. Tilley v.
Rogers, 405 S.W.2d 220, 224 (Tex. Civ. App.--Beaumont 1966, writ ref’d n.r.e.); Letter
Advisory No. 137 (1977).
2
Texas Gov't Code
§ 2151.002. DEFINITIONS. Except as otherwise provided by
this subtitle:
(1) "Commission" means the Texas Building and
Procurement Commission.
(2) "State agency" means:
(A) a department, commission, board, office, or
other agency in the executive branch of state government created by
the state constitution or a state statute;
(B) the supreme court, the court of criminal
appeals, a court of appeals, or the Texas Judicial Council; or
(C) a university system or an institution of
higher education as defined by Section 61.003, Education Code,
except a public junior college.
3
Sec. 552.003. Definitions (Definitions relating to Public Information)
In this chapter:
(1) "Governmental body":
(A) means:
(i) a board, commission, department, committee, institution, agency, or office that is within or is created by the executive or legislative branch of state government and that is directed by one or more elected or appointed members;
[snip]
| Reply by Sha/CA on 10/27/11 11:59am
Msg #401945
Wow, Brenda is on it! There may be more to it. n/m
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 10/27/11 11:59am
Msg #401946
Disagree, Brenda
A state agency is just that - an agent of the state, exercising particular duties on behalf of the state to administratively carry out duties and obligations of the state. I do not believe that the post-high school education of citizens is a duty of the state; therefore, the entity administering said education is not acting on behalf of the state.
| Reply by HisHughness on 10/27/11 12:42pm
Msg #401951
Re: Disagree, Brenda
***A state agency is just that - >>>an agent of the state, exercising particular duties on behalf of the state to administratively carry out duties and obligations of the state.<<<***
Robert, counties carry out state functions and in fact, in a whole host of enterprises, are THE agency to do those functions. Cities, on the other hand, are either created by their occupants under the general laws of the state or by a charter, and have no designated state functions. So, are you saying that accepting a county ID is okay, but a city ID is not?
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 10/27/11 2:23pm
Msg #401958
Re: Disagree, Brenda
A city government is a government. If they decide to produce "CITY IDs" for their citizens, then yes, this would qualify as government-issued ID. Counties could exercise the same authority in theory.
However, this does not have to do with Brenda's assertion that a university may be considered a state agency.
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 10/27/11 2:24pm
Msg #401959
And again, I wish to point out that this would not apply in
Florida, as we are restricted to accepting driver licenses and identification card issued by a government agency that is authorized to issue driver licenses.
| Reply by HisHughness on 10/27/11 3:54pm
Msg #401964
Re: Disagree, Brenda
You weren't paying attention, Robert. Cities are NOT organs of the state; they are created by their residents under some form of state authority. Counties are arms of the state, and even though they are local governments, are charged with carrying out some state functions. So, does that render them a "state agency" in your view?
| Reply by dickb/wi on 10/27/11 10:14pm
Msg #402007
Re: Disagree, Brenda n/m
| Reply by dickb/wi on 10/27/11 10:15pm
Msg #402008
not all states require govt issued photo id with n/m
| Reply by dickb/wi on 10/27/11 10:19pm
Msg #402009
not all states require govt issued photo id with...
a signature......wisconsin is one of them...we only require "photo id with a signature"...that includes university staff, student id,drivers license, passport,state id, military id etc.....as long as it has a picture--a signature--and is currant.........
| Reply by BrendaTx on 10/27/11 3:13pm
Msg #401962
Re: Disagree, Brenda - I hear you, Robert
*I do not believe that the post-high school education of citizens is a duty of the state; therefore, the entity administering said education is not acting on behalf of the state.*
I agree that a state-supported university is not "a government." I well understand that.
It is clear, however, that in Texas a state-supported university is a government body, or state agency...it is a major resource in some cases.
It is defined as state agency or government body many, many times in the SoT's laws and AG's opinions. I suspect that if I were given plenty of time, I could locate 100, maybe even over 200 citations. But, they all say the same thing, and I have already provided a few references.
Not all universities just perform "post-high school education of citizens."
That's just one part of it.
A significant amount of funding is derived by many of the state supported universities through sponsored research projects. (I know that FSU, does as well, but they probably have different policies.) For instance, in '10, TAMU brought into its bank accounts *$669,000,000* from performing research for private companies, government entities, other countries, and the DoD.
In addition, university offices manage a great deal of commercialization of technology for licensing plant varieties and patents, and IP commercialization.
In their spare time, many university staff members, faculty and researchers are hanging out in 3rd world countries including Iraq and Afghanistan teaching them how to feed farm, preserve and cook to feed their people.
Then, there is the new campus in the Middle East at Qatar (pronounced "cutter") where various degrees in engineering are offered.
So, I am just saying, that maybe a state-supported university has evolved into more than you thought. Maybe in Texas they are performing some of those state duties. The State Agricultural Research Agency is here, the Office of the State Chemist is here, so is the Texas Transportation Institute.
I can only imagine what Big Brother UT is doing for the State and Federal government if the little school on the Brazos is involved in the above and more. I'll bet our ID cards might look different than smaller schools that seem more in line with what you mention.
Maybe the Texas Constitution set schools up differently than Florida's...I really don't know.
| Reply by desktopfull on 10/27/11 1:07pm
Msg #401953
Maybe in TX, but not FL n/m
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