Posted by JulieD/KS on 10/12/11 11:35am
Msg #400244
Request for journal
In 16 years, this is the first time I've been requested for information out of my journal. Can anyone tell me the specifics of what the requester should provide to me before I release the information? Just a written request? Or, is there more that I should have on file before releasing the information? Thanks!
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/12/11 11:46am
Msg #400245
I would check with your SOS, Julie...apparently your
handbook doesn't address that issue so it's going to be their call.
| Reply by JulieD/KS on 10/12/11 11:46am
Msg #400246
Re: I would check with your SOS, Julie...apparently your
My handbook is in my notary briefcase at home...I'm at my office. I may have to run home and get it. I will call the SOS, Linda. Thanks!
| Reply by JulieD/KS on 10/12/11 11:49am
Msg #400247
Actually...
Actually, this wouldn't be covered in my handbook because KS notaries are not required to keep a journal. I do, though.
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/12/11 12:16pm
Msg #400248
We aren't required either - that's why I told you contact
your SOS and let them be the last word on proper protocol
If it were me, I would require the request in writing and they would have to be very specific about details of the transaction (names, date, subject matter, etc etc)...
| Reply by Notarysigner on 10/12/11 12:33pm
Msg #400249
Re: We aren't required either - that's why I told you contact
I had it happen once, here we are required to oblige. I could only charge a MAX of 0.30 cents. After talking with them, and them telling who/what/where/why I gave them the info.
I had no problems with it, they wanted to know the address where I did the notarization so I told them. That was it.
| Reply by JulieD/KS on 10/12/11 12:50pm
Msg #400250
Re: We aren't required either - that's why I told you contact
Thanks for all this info! I also had a notary from AZ call me with lots info. NotRot notaries rock.
| Reply by Chris_NJ on 10/13/11 12:03am
Msg #400331
Re: Actually...
FYI NJ Notaries, although nj didn't used to require a journal the wording has changed on the sos site notary manual in regards to jurats, ack's,etc that states that a journal recording is necessary to complete these. I dont really know if there was a law change or not but the wording definately changed.
| Reply by NJDiva on 10/13/11 10:19am
Msg #400362
I've been using a journal for the 10 years that I've been
commissioned.
| Reply by Les_CO on 10/12/11 1:16pm
Msg #400254
Wow…. That’s scary! My answer would be that: “KS notaries are not required by law to keep a journal.”
What you have is a ‘diary’ containing a lot of other people’s personal information.
If you did NOT get ‘written permission’ from these people to keep their personal information in your ‘diary’ and you let anyone else see it or be privy to its contents, my view you can be sued right down to your shoe leather if they are ever in ANY way damaged or harmed by your dissemination of that personal information.
If it was my Diary/Journal I’d BURN IT!
| Reply by HisHughness on 10/12/11 1:46pm
Msg #400257
Texas is one of 16 states, I think it is, that require NPs to keep a journal. In Texas, it is public information and accessible to anyone on request.
Nonetheless, if you do not have the cover of state law to keep a journal and give public access, I concur with Les that it is a personal account kept for YOUR purposes and you should not be disseminating personal information from it.
I vigorously disagree that you should destroy your journal. I see no basis for that action at all. It is one of your business records, just like your accounts ledger, and a most valuable record at that. That YOU maintain such a journal does not necessarily mean that others have the right, absent appropriate judicial action, to access it.
Keep the journal. If it has not already proved valuable, many times over, there will surely come a time when it will.
| Reply by Scriba/NM on 10/12/11 2:37pm
Msg #400261
One of the most idiotic responses I've seen is to (for some unimaginable reason) to "burn" your journal. Obviously another amateur attempting to play notary.
NNA and other organizations clearly provide instructions on what to do should you receive a request for information from your journal. The specific type of request governs your response. I always recommend contacting your Secretary of State to determine any specific rules that might apply in your particular jurisdiction.
Legal requests will usually be specific in nature and refer to an individual and a date range. I have only had two in 24 years, and both requests were from the courts - one I remember was regarding notarization of a trust. You normally will mask everything (other entries) from view except the line regarding the individual event in question and then photocopy that specific directly from your journal.
I would not be handing out information to anyone else without contacting the individual whom you did the notarization for and then receiving his written permission in hand before disseminating anything.
In many of the states that require you to keep a journal, they have rules pertaining to use and disposition of one's journal. In California, when your journal becomes full, or you terminate your commission, you are required to turn in your journal to the county offices (County Recorder) in which you primarily practice (at least I did over the years and of course when I left the state). -30-
| Reply by Les_CO on 10/12/11 3:48pm
Msg #400273
My answer stays the same. If someone asks I’d say: “KS Notaries are not required to keep a journal” However if you get a court order to produce such a journal, (say in divorce proceedings) and you have it…. you will have to produce it.
If you have written permission from each person whose personal information contained in your diary/journal/business records, to record and disseminate said information at your convenience, or if the diary/journal/business records contain only information that is of public record, I wouldn’t worry about it. However if you acquired and recorded any legally uncalled for information about someone while doing your “business” that is/was/could be used to in some way to cause any kind of harm to that individual about anything, whether by court order or not, you could be held liable for any damage suffered.
If I had a Diary filled with personal private information about people that I had obtained illegally, and that could potentially cause then damage. I would not call the NNA for advice, maybe a lawyer but not the NNA. If it were me and this is… JUST MY OPINION….. I’d BURN it! I’m not a lawyer so this is not legal advice only opinion.
| Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 10/12/11 2:53pm
Msg #400265
CA Notary Law....Notary must keep a sequenced journal and
A notary public must respond within 15 business days after the receipt of a written request
from any member of the public for a copy of a transaction in the notary public journal by
supplying either a photostatic copy of a line item from the notary public’s journal or an
acknowledgment that no such line item exists. The written request shall include the name of
the parties, the type of document, and the month and year in which the document was notarized.
The cost to provide the requested information must not exceed thirty cents ($0.30) per page.
(Government Code sections 8206(c) and 8206.5)
| Reply by Lee/AR on 10/12/11 4:02pm
Msg #400279
What's CA law got to do with it? OP is in Kansas! n/m
| Reply by ikando on 10/12/11 10:02pm
Msg #400319
Re: What's CA law got to do with it? OP is in Kansas!
I agree with the advice to contact the SOS, but here's what I did.
I was requested to provide the record of a closing that I assisted. The borrower was indicating he never signed. Although Oklahoma does not require a journal, I've always kept one. So even though the signing was almost 2 years prior to the request, I had the information.
Anyway, the contacting party was a law firm. Since I am a legal assistant, I knew that records of importance often are subpoenaed. I requested, and received, a subpoena for my files. I then blocked out information of other records, copied the page(s) and sent it to the requesting party.
Never did hear what happened with the case.
| Reply by Les_CO on 10/13/11 9:47am
Msg #400350
Records
I have no idea what some notaries put in their journals or business records. Here on NR in the past few months there have been posts where some notaries keep records of not only names and addresses and times of signing appointments, kind of documents, and fees charged, but things like kinds of ID’s such as a drivers license, with State, and number/issue/expiration dates, DOB, social security numbers, and credit card numbers, along with fingerprints. And God knows what else?
There is a difference between business information and personal information. When someone that asks for and keeps more information that they are legally required to do they open themselves to big trouble.
If you are the clients accountant, you probably need to know his SS number, if you are his pool guy, you don’t. Just because we see and are privy to a whole bunch of the signer’s private information, it doesn’t mean we are entitled to it, or should even see it. Let alone keep it and distribute it to others without the person’s knowledge or permission. Our job is to witness the signature within the boundaries of our states law. That’s it. No more. I f you want to keep a record of your notarial/signing work I suggest follow your States law, and keep personal information at a minimum. Something like: I met with John & Mary Smith at 101 First St. at 6 PM they produced valid OK drivers licenses w/photo copy (forwarded to Wonderful Title Co.) I notarized approx 6 documents in the loan package, Returned (FedEx tr # 111 111 1111) the package back to Wonderful Title fee $110
If some lawyer wants to subpoena the information I’d say I seem to recall notarizing some documents for Mr. Smith but in OK we do not have to keep journals, I suggest you call the Title Company.
It’s your business; it’s your journal….. do what you want.
PS: I would bet big money that if you give out the signers personal information without their permission and get sued that the SOS is NOT going to defend you or pay for your legal fees. JMO
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/13/11 9:58am
Msg #400356
For us in FL, the Florida manual...page 42
"We recommend that your journal be bound (not loose-leaf) and have consecutively numbered pages, so that a page could not be removed without being detected. Important information should be recorded in the journal including:
the date of the notarial act;
the type of notarial act: oath, acknowledgment, attested photocopy, marriage;
the name or brief description of the document;
the party’s printed name, exactly as he or she signed the document;
the party’s address;
the party’s signature;
the type of identification relied upon in identifying the party, including the serial number,
expiration date, date of birth, etc.;
the fee charged for the notary service; and
any additional comments you consider important; for example, the person is blind and you read the document to him."
http://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/notary/ref_manual41-68.pdf
| Reply by Les_CO on 10/13/11 10:51am
Msg #400371
Re: For us in FL, the Florida manual...page 42
My Quote: "follow your States law"
FL Governors quote: "Florida law does not require the use of a notary journal"
If I were a FL Notary I would keep a record, for my use ONLY. I would never divulge that information. Unless the FL driver license 'serial number' is public information I would not record it regardless of "suggestions."
My belief: If you record private information you are not legally required to have, and disseminate that information to others without the express written permission of the person owning said information, you could be held liable for any damage suffered by them.
If you get sued for damages because you had, and issued to others private information about someone that you were not legally required to have neither the FL Governor, nor the SOS is going to come to your rescue.
My quote “ It’s your business, it’s your journal…do what you want.”
JMO
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