Posted by Yowheelz on 10/14/11 9:27am
Msg #400489

Signature Police Revisited

Title company instructions:
"All docs were signed in cursive exactly how name is printed. NO scribble signatures. (Begin your signing by having the signer complete a practice signature to verify it's done correctly)"

Back to Sister Corrine's first grade class, should I take along the wide spaced practice paper that she used? I tell the borrower to sign their name exactly as printed but I don't hold their hand and force them use proper penmanship. Maybe I should use the signing company's tactics, your loan will be reduced by $25 if you don't follow the instructions exactly.

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/14/11 9:39am
Msg #400490

I would asked the TC if they had instructed the borrowers when they went over the HUD1 with them. They probably didn't even do that but that's what I would do. I'd also ask them to please send me a copy of the signature, they way they wanted it so I could compare it to their satisfaction.

Then I would do what I always do, verify the signature on the I.D.

Reply by Alz on 10/14/11 9:48am
Msg #400492

I've never had a problem with the BO's signature, as a copy

of the ID is generally sent with the loan documents. I refused to "police" the signatures. If a BO tells me that his/her signature is what is printed on the document then I just say okay. Staying in my own lane here.

Reply by Riley/FL on 10/14/11 11:33am
Msg #400510

At the risk of sounding reundant...

Follow the instructions of those who are paying you. Tell the borrowers what the signature requirement is, even show them the instructions if needed. If they insist on scribbling, let them know there is no guarantee it will be accepted. IMO

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/14/11 12:48pm
Msg #400530

maybe you got something here..

I think there could be two answers to this.

1. In California we need to verify signature matches I.D. Once we're satisfied with the match, have them sign our journal THAT way.

2. Let borrower see instructions from TC as you mentioned and go with that. You can even add that info in your Journal.

Reply by Riley/FL on 10/14/11 1:19pm
Msg #400541

Good point, James, it varies state to state.

In FL we are not required to compare signatures. If we were, then notarizing a signature that doesn't match the I.D. would be illegal and I wouldn't do it either.

It is a fine line we walk as independent 3rd parties in the transaction. We need to follow the instructions we are given, silly or not, and try not to upset the signers while doing so.

IME, it's usually not a big deal to the BOs, they usually laugh and agree that if that's the way they want it, that's what we'll do.

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/14/11 1:35pm
Msg #400546

Yep, that's been my experience, borrowers think it's a joke n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/16/11 12:47am
Msg #400674

Re: maybe you got something here..

"1. In California we need to verify signature matches I.D. Once we're satisfied with the match, have them sign our journal THAT way."

I agree that this is a good practice to follow, but please tell me where it specifies this as a notary requirement in our handbook...

Reply by dickb/wi on 10/14/11 8:32pm
Msg #400588

Re: At the risk of sounding reundant...

in wi your signature is what you say it is, even if it is just a mark and i have done them with just a mark where inst say exactly as printed and no repurcussions...[spelling?]...in facat if a person can't sign their sig the way they [who ever asks] want it, it may violate the Americans Withe Disabilities Act.........

Reply by JPH13/MO on 10/14/11 11:31am
Msg #400508

And what if the "scribble signature" is what shows on their ID? I know a lot of people who have a scribble as a signature and they have their own reasons for that. If they sign in any other way it would not only not be their real signature but it would also not match the ID.

So I guess you would need to call if you get someone like that and let them know that the signature will match the ID that you will be providing them a copy of, and see what they say!

Reply by jnew on 10/14/11 11:59am
Msg #400516

I know either LSI or FASS had a blank generic signature affidavit that was always sent with their packages for a certain lender... may have been JPMChase. I remember calling back and asking if it needed to be filled in (they sent it with the title docs and not the loan docs). The answer I got was that it was to be used if there was any discrepancy between the signature and the name as shown on the docs. (presumably the scribble, hieroglyphics, etc) This made sense to me and I think it would be an easy solution to the problem, perhaps even putting a clause in the affidavit "to insure compatability between printed name and signature". The signature certs I use guarantee that the signature on the identity document match the signature on the loan docs. I really can not give that guarantee if the signer is requested to arbitrarily change his/her signature to satisfy lender/title company/signing service

Reply by Riley/FL on 10/14/11 12:11pm
Msg #400519

I was told those were in the package to be used if there were any variations of names on the DL, such as a full middle name vs an initial on the docs. I guess it depends who you're talking to at the TC.

Reply by Pamela Franckowiak on 10/14/11 12:39pm
Msg #400524

OMGosh - I never heard of that. Their signature is their signature. What right do we have to tell them how to sign their name. WOW

Reply by doglover/CA on 10/14/11 4:00pm
Msg #400560

In some cases where documents were overnighted to me, I noticed that the escrow officer's signature on the HUD looked like an unintelligible squiggle. One loan officer told me that when loan papers are signed all that really matters is that the squiggle the borrower puts on paper is consistent throughout all the documents.

Reply by topflyt on 10/14/11 5:37pm
Msg #400572

If their signature matches their I.D. signature...it's onward and upward!

Reply by Karla/WA on 10/14/11 6:24pm
Msg #400577

I agree that a borrower's signature is the borrower's signature and not up to anyone to make them change that. However, I had a signing (purchase transaction and their kids were moving into the house that next day once the deed was recorded) and specifically on the notary instructions, the lender indicated "the signature must be in cursive and entirely legible."

The borrower sits before me and sqiggles his signature and I called the lender who in fact indicated those were their funding requirements and the signature must be cursive and legible. The borrowers were US citizens, but originally from Czech Republic. The borrower did not know what "cursive" meant.

The lender indicated that they would not fund unless the signatures were legible. I indicated that was not their legal signature. They did not care. The lender said that I was a witness to his signature and also to the borrower changing his signature to accomodate those instructions. The signing took twice as long because the borrower had to "think" about signing his name in a way he wasn't accustomed for all 150 pages of the loan package! AND, since their kids were moving in the next day, I indicated that they should do as instructed by the lender, even though they objected every step of the way (which we included a statement in the package that the borrowers were asked to change their legal signature).

At least their kids moved in the next day after they took ownership of the property.
Thank goodness I deal with the "big banks" for the majority of my signings that accept a signature as a signature rather than some fabricated writing on a piece of paper.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 10/15/11 6:51am
Msg #400617

Another example of 'industry brain-drain', Karla!

Lender's closers/funders have, unfortunately, a LOT of power and it sometimes goes to their head - impossible to pit logic against ego. They'll come up with their own version of What Is Right (for that day, or that file, or for balancing the barametric pressure - who knows), and if it's "Everyone must twirl around and clap three times", then that's what everyone has to do.

I remember one purchase closing I had to fax docs for a funding number, including the FHA/VA Addendum to the Application (4 page form). The top of the first page of this form (usually) includes the terms of the loan and FHA ins premiums. THE LENDER completes this form, it is part of the FHA loan pkg. This particular lender had NOT completed the form, it was missing the monthly premium amount - the box for that amount was blank.

I fax, I call the funder for my funding # - she says "the addendum isn't complete. It has to be complete before I'll fund. Complete it and fax it." I try to explain: " ...it's YOUR form, YOU are the Lender, YOU left it blank and YOU have to complete it!"

No dice. I say fine, then YOU tell ME what you want me to write on it. Nope - not her job.

Seriously? Ok, fine. I copied the form, wrote a "zero" in the mo premium box, faxed it over - she funded it. What an IDIOT! I then pitched that "zero" form and returned just the original signed copy (with a blank mo premium box) in the pkg. (First, I twirled around & clapped my hands 3 times.)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/16/11 1:05am
Msg #400675

Great example of how ridiculous this request is. Some people just don't get what a "signature" really means. In many parts of the world, as WE all probably have figured out by now, there's not necessarily any correlation between writing one's name in cursive (if they even know how), and writing their signature. They are two completely different concepts.

I saw the same request this week (from a good ss, BTW). Lately, it seems that at least half of my borrowers are immigrants (lots of engineers of various flavors) and for many, the signature does NOT mean their name written in cursive - and I think I'd have a very hard time complying with that request. And lots of other people I've sat across the table from don't know how to write cursive.

It crossed my mind that I may have to refuse future signings from these people. Aside from their micro-managing checklist, they otherwise seemed to be among the better ss companies. Makes me wonder if that instruction is their idea of how to deal with this issue or if it's a requirement of one of their clients. Unfortunate...