Posted by Missy82 on 9/7/11 4:12pm
Msg #396612

Bad experiences?

I don't normally do this, but I am really upset about this today. I did a loan signing for LPC recently, and the package was just horrendous. I do realize that signing agencies don't control the packages, but don't they screen them in some way and possibly catch some big mistakes that might have been made? This particular loan took almost three hours to complete because there were so many errors and an EXTRANEOUS amount of notarizations. I did a good job with what I had and had the package sent back out at 10:30 a.m. the following business day. Another nasty surprise: I was docked $5 because I didn't invoice by 10 a.m. because I am not in the habit of invoicing before a package goes out; it's just dishonest.
So anyway, I thought I'd be a good little notary and give other notaries a heads-up about the package size, errors, and what-not on Signing Central. What do I get a few days later? A nasty message from LPC that demands to know why I blame them for a bad loan package, and that my complaint just shows my inexperience. Maybe that's true, but I thought that portion of Notary Rotary was there to share experiences with other signing agents, so others can learn from mistakes and possibly avoid bad deals.
I guess what I'm getting at is this: should a notary signing agent expect that a loan package sent to them by a signing agency to be somewhat proofed for errors? I always ask about the loan package size, and I was told it was "average". I don't think a 180-page package is "average", especially not when it contains 11 notarizations and there are 2 borrowers, almost EVERY document had a major error that had to be corrected, and EVERY page had to be initialed. Am I wrong in expecting to be truthfully informed of the loan package size before I get the documents? These were E-Docs too, by the way.
Just looking for some feedback, negative, positive, whatever. I am not a bad notary despite being new; I am very thorough, conscientious, ethical, polite, and patient. I do my job correctly. Maybe I just have my expectations set too high.

Reply by Lee/AR on 9/7/11 4:29pm
Msg #396616

Never worked for the company as they pay way too little, but this does seem to be their modus operandi.... SC has a similar complaint about being chewed out for a rating.

To answer other questions: Generally, SS does not know the size or condition of a pkg; nor are they responsible for that. 180 pages is a lot and not average. 11 notarizations....maybe--I've had some (less pages) that require 20, some as little as 2. Again, SS does not know. 2 borrowers is pretty typical; docking $5 is just silly (it's "before 10am" somewhere, isn't it~~); initialing every page, while not typical, is not extremely rare either.

When I'm told it's an average size package and it comes in at 180 pages, I will attempt to renegotiate the fee. If that doesn't work, I have a choice--do it or turn it back.

Reply by Eva75Eva on 9/7/11 4:37pm
Msg #396619

I've had to endure similar situations before. It's extremely aggravating to have to make corrections and make sure all parties initial everything. Sometimes the phone calls from the schedulers are misleading. One was for a purchase, "It's only a few documents for the buyer to sign." It actually wound up being over 150 pages. Whenever I get these "surprise" monster loan packages I always call back and renegotiate for a higher fee. It works about 99% of the time, otherwise I just turn down the job.

Reply by Missy82 on 9/7/11 4:44pm
Msg #396620

I don't get the documents until after I accept a signing, and by that point, I guess I'm worried they can force some kind of legal action if I turn the signing down after I've already accepted it. I had one agency give me a contract to that affect as well: "if you accept the signing and then later turn it down, you will be financially responsible". I guess I just feel disappointed in the whole process. I do a good job, but it seems I keep getting taken advantage of.
I guess up until now, I've been confused as to the signing agency's role in the process. I thought they knew what the package looked like tentatively before farming it out to a notary.

Reply by Lee/AR on 9/7/11 4:55pm
Msg #396623

"if you accept the signing and then later turn it down, you will be financially responsible".
Horsefeathers!! Just horsefeathers. Now it's not cool to do that--particularly at the last minute--but sometimes there are many and varied reasons for doing it. A decent company will understand--and agree--that an oversize package requires a fee adjustment. The weasels will argue and try to browbeat you into doing it at a loss.

Reply by Karla/OR on 9/7/11 5:39pm
Msg #396628

Missy, sorry to hear of your experience - I would be upset too - then I would (hopefully) eventually get that, "things happen for a reason." Thank you for having this experience, as ugly as it was, so that the rest of us newbies could learn from it. I/We will also probably experience situations that are as ugly and will hopefully share on this forum as a learning tool.

Thanks.

Reply by dutchcloser on 9/8/11 10:21am
Msg #396684

Same thing happened to me. Docked $5 for not invoicing before 10AM. I posted my low rating of the company and I got the same nasty message. I have not worked for them since. I would gather that only newbies work for them as I did, not realizing my worth at that time.

Reply by Notarysigner on 9/7/11 4:48pm
Msg #396621

I would look at it as a good experience. The reason being you're now a little more aware of how to tighten up your business plan. Example, for my fee you get whatever you want except entire package fax-backs and no work agreements.

A large package is usually one type of loan, like a V.A. loan. You can rationalize that it all "averages out" in the long run or just be upset. It still should be viewed as a "learning experience" good or bad. IMO

Reply by TacomaBoy on 9/7/11 4:51pm
Msg #396622

Bad experiences?

I'm with you girlie! I've been around this business for 14 years with over 9,000 signings under my belt. You were well within your rights to express your opinion to the SC. When a SC tries to bully me my I fire back by letting them know that I expect loan packages to be complete, fit for signing and received in a timely manner. Anything less reflect poorly upon the mortgage company as being unprofessional and sloppy. Indeed, the SC owes you the simple courtesy of acknowledging the short comings of the mortgage company and then passing the information back to them. Lenders need such feedback, so they can learn and take appropriate measures to improve their services. Just make a mental note of the package size from the particular lender, so you too can grow from your experience and price your services appropriately.

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/7/11 5:33pm
Msg #396627

I suggest you create a fee schedule. A fee schedule shows what you charge for various types of loan signings to include lots of variables the companies may fail to mention. It's a good idea to email and/or fax a copy to the hiring entity during the assignment negotiations on the phone. Then when you ask details about the signing such as the size of the loan package and you're told "average", then your fee schedule kicks in based on the job you actually receive and not necessarily on what is discussed with the scheduler. If more Notary did this, they would not be bamboozled into a signing they didn't bargain for. Then the only person who would be upset is the hiring party - mainly because they couldn't sneak in services they'd otherwise have to pay for.

The fee schedule could look something like the following example:

Loan signing fee includes up to 139 pages and travel up to 30 miles one way.
Payment schedule NET 30

TYPES OF LOAN SIGNINGS:
Single refinance - overnight docs: $XXX
Single refinanace - edocs: $XXX
1st & 2nd mortgages - overnight docs: $XXX
1st & 2nd mortgages - edocs: $XXX
Reverse mortgage - overnight docs: $XXX
Reverse mortgage - edocs: $XXX
Signing completed/docs returned but loan is canceled for ANY reason: FULL CONTRACTED FEE
Borrower No-Sign or No-Show: Print & Trip fee (based on type of signing, size of package, distance to borrower).


ADDITIONAL FEES:
Packages from 140 - 199 pages: + $XX
Packages 200+ pages: + $XX
Extended travel fee beyond XX miles one way: + $XX
Faxbacks up to xx pages: + $XX
Full package faxbacks: + $XX
Late fee: $XX - If payment is not received within NET 30 from date of service.
Returned check fee: $XX - If your check is returned by the bank because it cannot be processed for ANY reason.

You would need to tailor this to meet your specific needs - and to ensure that your costs are covered and you yield a profit. When you send a fee schedule to a hiring party, they may see it and then withdraw the order - but who cares if their intent was to offer minimal info on the job and then hit you with a list of extras they'd expect you to handle for free. So in case the scheduler fails to mention certain things or deliberately doesn't mention certain things, your fee schedule will take care of it.

Reply by Karla/OR on 9/7/11 5:43pm
Msg #396629

LKT - what a great schooling - I'm updating my fees as soon as I hit the Post button! Thanks for taking the time to provide such valued info.

Reply by Missy82 on 9/7/11 5:54pm
Msg #396630

I agree with Karla, LKT, that took a lot of time. Thank you. I do have a fee schedule for my regular services, it never occurred to me to create one for signings. Thanks so much. I always feel extremely rushed when a SC calls me, and I think that's probably done on purpose. In my VERY rural area, there are a very few notaries that also do signings, and I get the feeling I get most of the calls because nobody else wants the headache. I think I'll have more courage to negotiate my fees because everyone else is just too far away to be economically feasible to hire, and it seems I'm the only one who is NOT negotiating and just settling for less. Which is my fault, being new.
So....I hope my next post is more enlightened, thanks to all of you, and I can report a much happier signing.

Reply by desktopfull on 9/8/11 8:15am
Msg #396668

I would like to suggest that you go back and read

this forum from the beginning. It will take a lot of time & some things have changed quite a bit but it will provide a wealth of information that could prevent you from having further simular experiences that you described in your OP. It will also help you in determining who to work for & who to avoid. Tip: You can't be held responsible for something that you don't do, the SS or TC that sent the notice about you being financially responsible for kicking back a package is full of it, you are an independent contractor and not an employee. If it's not as expected you don't have to accept the job. I've kicked back several and one tried that you can't refuse once accepted with me and I asked them if they would like to talk to my attorney. Guess what, they said no and that ended that garbage.

Reply by Julie/MI on 9/7/11 5:55pm
Msg #396631

For a whole $75 minus your $5 late fee

That's why I don't do business with them.

Reply by Bee_CA on 9/7/11 6:09pm
Msg #396633

Can you clarify the signing agency's name? LPC? I am not familiar. Are they listed in Signing Central?

Reply by Missy82 on 9/7/11 8:05pm
Msg #396640

Bee, they are listed in signing central. Starts with Loan...
Gotta be careful. They may be trolling this forum as well and may attack me publicly. I am not out to commit libel against a good company, I was merely stating my opinion as to the package disorganization. I have yet to be paid for a signing I completed in July, so I can't speak to their payment policies currently.

Reply by Riley/FL on 9/7/11 6:34pm
Msg #396635

Do not let them intimidate you.

Most signing services are one person operations working from home, just like you and I. If they try to abuse you by lying about the loan package and send you a big mess, tell them that it will cost extra or they can find someone else. TCs, SSs, and Signing Agents know what a standard loan package is supposed to look like. Fool you once.......

Reply by Missy82 on 9/7/11 8:06pm
Msg #396641

Re: Do not let them intimidate you.

They will not fool me again. I have all their numbers loaded in my cell phone with colorful descriptions so that I will not again take their calls. I may be a relatively new agent, but I wasn't born yesterday. If I get treated badly once, I'll not work for them again.

Reply by GinaKY on 9/7/11 8:13pm
Msg #396642

Re: Do not let them intimidate you.

Missy82, I am very sorry that you had this experience with our company. When we schedule closings with notaries, we are never aware of the size of the package until we recieve the docs. For future reference, please call us back, or any company for that matter, if the package is not the "normal" size, and we will be more than happy to adjust your fee. At that point we can then reach out to the Title Company and ask them for more money to compensate you.

Unfortunatley, we are not a 1-2 person shop. We have a seperate scheduling team that handles our daily closing scheduling and another team that is responsible for getting the package from the TItle Co.

With regards to the invoicing, it is in our closing instructions very clear to make sure that the invoice is generated by 10am est. the following day. We do this for a reason. Questions that you answer when generating the invoice are emailed to the Title Co., Mortgage Brokers and anyone else associated with that closing transaction. When invoices are not generated, we start recieving calls about each closing and that takes alot of man hours to make sure that the packages were dropped, were the borrowers happy, was the closing on time, ect.

The reason I emailed you, is because I did not think it was fair that you blamed us for the sizw of the package. You have the right to post comments in SC about what ever company you like, but I feel that it is necessary to defend something that we have no control over.

I hope that this experience would not hender us from doing business together in the future.

Thank you very much.

Gina Touche
Loan Processing Center

Reply by Riley/FL on 9/7/11 8:43pm
Msg #396643

Sorry, not buying it.

Your ratings in SC speak for themselves. Were you looking for an invoice or a completion report and did you make it clear if they were one and the same? Does your "team" not scan the package before they send it off to the notary? At least do a page count? Or do you just hope the new kid doesn't call you for additional fees?

Reply by MistarellaFL on 9/7/11 8:52pm
Msg #396644

Me, neither

Also, there is a 3 hour time difference. If I were in CA, I would expect the courtesy of invoicing by MY own 10 AM.
Sometimes we work long, late hours.
Your fees are minimal at best...and you think it's appropos to dock a Californian for not invoicing by her 7 AM?
I would rethink that $5 deduction.
Nickle and diming agents tends to make you look ungenerous in more than one way.

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/7/11 9:23pm
Msg #396650

Agree with Riley and Mistarella

<<<When invoices are not generated, we start recieving calls about each closing and that takes alot of man hours to make sure that the packages were dropped, were the borrowers happy, was the closing on time, ect.>>>

A shipper's tracking number will confirm that the package was dropped. Unhappy borrowers will shout from the rooftop - otherwise, if all is silent then all went well. Several factors can derail a timely closing, (i.e. docs received on time; rush hour traffic, road closures, construction, accidents, etc.; borrowers not on time, etc.)

Notaries have lives beyond loan signings and other appointments beyond one company's signing order. Therefore, the last thing anyone would want to be bothered with - after arriving home at nearly midnight after a day of appointments - is to generate an invoice to meet your 10 am EST (7am PST ) next day deadline. You may wish to rethink this tactic.

Reply by DaveCA/CA on 9/7/11 10:47pm
Msg #396655

Look at package and follow directions

I sort of disagree with the whole time difference thing. If you don't want to get up before 7am, then just do it the night before. I don't know, when I was doing 8-10 signings a day (back in glory days), I always updated the night before because I never knew what would happen in the morning. Also, if they dropped the package at 10:30am, most likely, it won't be scanned into the system until 4 or whenever a driver picks them up (assuming they are at a drop box).

I do agree with you that it is frustrating to receive a giant package. My experience is that most SS just forward the info on to us. Still, this could have just been a big package but infortunately, is was huge and filled with mistakes. That is the ultimate downer. Ugghhh. I hate mistakes in packages. It just makes everything take longer.

When I get a package and the name of borrower(s) look suspicious, I will call them even if I have already confirmed, to make sure the names match ID.

Good luck

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 9/8/11 12:42am
Msg #396662

Agree with Dave.Most completion reports take about 9 seconds

Just get them done before you turn in for the nite.
TC/ LO etc, want to know first tihing that their loans closed.
SS usually have no idea of length, quality or number of notarizations in pkg.
If NSA has a problem when dox recd, let them know then. Generally too late to deal with doc related fee problems after signing is completed.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/8/11 12:24am
Msg #396660

10 am the following day? What?

Do you not realize that this means 7am, California time? If a signing is scheduled in the evening, you expect the notary to stay up late or get up super early just to get you an invoice by 10am? Wow.

You know, it's no surprise that the lower the pay, the more ridiculous demands are laid upon the contractors. Notaries are NOT employees... they are independent contractors, and forcing them to work late in to the night just to give you an invoice should be appropriately compensated.

If you called me, I'd charge you extra for working outside of normal hours for that kind of thing. But then... from what I've read, your company doesn't come close to paying the kind of fees that I charge, so I guess that's not an issue.

Reply by Priscilla Witman on 9/8/11 7:49am
Msg #396666

Re: 10 am the following day? What?

I am not so much complaining about fees as I am about the perceived omission that the package was enormous, full of errors, and generally ridiculous. My invoice was ready the same evening, but part of their process is to indicate that the package had shipped. I don't indicate that unless it has, I think its dishonest. The shipper in this case didn't even open until 10 am, and I am uneasy dropping docs into a drop box. So...I did have my expectations too high in this case I suppose. And now that I have been accosted in a public forum by the very company I had a complaint about, I guess I don't really have anything else to say about it. It will probably all be refuted by the company anyway.

Reply by Riley/FL on 9/8/11 8:14am
Msg #396667

Re: 10 am the following day? What?

Priscilla, I read your profile and took a look at your website. I surmise that within a few months, this SS won't even be on your radar. So continue to market to the 5 star ones and use this experience as a lesson learned. What happened to you is most likely their modus operandi so I wouldn't sweat it if I were you.

Reply by GinaKY on 9/8/11 9:35am
Msg #396677

Re: 10 am the following day? What?

I would like for everyone to know that the closing that Prisciall did was 99 pages Total, including FEDEX label and closing instructions. So, the package INCLUDING the copy for the borrower was 180. And also, a check has been issued to her on time. Thank you very much.

Reply by Priscilla Witman on 9/8/11 9:54am
Msg #396680

Re: 10 am the following day? What?

Wow. Just...wow. Hopefully these posts speak for themselves. This loan package was not 99 pages long. That is a fact. Maybe the FIRST ATTACHMENT was 99 pages long, but there wasn't just ONE attachment. It's pointless to respond to these posts. LPC obviously has much more time to troll forums than I do.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 9/8/11 10:43am
Msg #396693

99 X 2 = 198 n/m

Reply by Priscilla Witman on 9/8/11 11:01am
Msg #396700

Re: 99 X 2 = 198

Probably the worst part about all of this is that this was a complex, challenging, time-consuming loan signing, but I did a great job with it, if I do say so myself. I was REALLY new at the time, and I'm still gaining experience, but I have not had a package returned to me for a single error (and I've had some really complicated loans so far). I was very patient with the borrowers, who had a LOT of questions I couldn't answer personally, but I called the SS and the Loan Officer at their request, and sat patiently while their questions were answered. I completed 22 notarizations for this (11x2 borrowers), the errors were all corrected and initialed, in just under 3.5 hours (seems like a long time, but when you consider the work involved in a single notarization...). It's just so very disappointing that you think a company is supposed to be professional.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/8/11 11:22am
Msg #396703

Re: 99 X 2 = 198

"I completed 22 notarizations for this (11x2 borrowers), the errors were all corrected and initialed, in just under 3.5 hours (seems like a long time, but when you consider the work involved in a single notarization...). "

Did you do a cert for each signer? If so, you shouldn't have...you had 11 notarizations, not 22 - and honestly, once you've gained enough experience, there's not a lot of time involved in a single notarization.

As for the 10am? Yes - companies need to keep differences in time zones in mind. But, since they were specific about invoicing by 10am EST, this is part of your due diligence to meet the deadlines, no matter what.

MHO

Reply by Priscilla Witman on 9/8/11 11:37am
Msg #396707

Re: 99 X 2 = 198

I didn't do a loose cert for EACH signer, but I did have to do a loose cert for each notarization because the wording was not for California and there was not enough room for a stamp. Yes, it was 11 notarizations, but each one required 2 journal entries. My mistaken verbiage. I TOLD them explicitly that UPS here doesn't open until 10 and the invoice was required at that exact time, so what am I to do? I absolutely will not agree on an invoice that I dropped the docs (a line that requires acknowledgment on these particular invoices) when I have not yet, and I don't drop them in those drop boxes UPS has because usually they are over-full; I would much rather hand them off to a person and get a receipt. I have reviewed and re-reviewed everything that happened with this signing, and I keep coming back to the same thing: I believe I did a good job, I just got a really disorganized package. That signing could have taken 1-1.5 hours if one borrower's name hadn't been misspelled on EVERY document besides the Note. Correcting and initialing so many things contributed to that time.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/8/11 7:15pm
Msg #396779

Here's what I do about names...

When I confirm the closing with the borrowers I ask them "How does your name appear on your driver's license?" - ask for spouse's name on license too, and confirming spelling at that time.

Now I have this info so when the package comes in and the names are not correct I can send it right back to title/ss and have THEM correct it. Oh, you suggest I correct the name on every document in the package? Okay, that will be an additional $xx for the time correcting YOUR mistake.

I can see where this was a very frustrating experience.