Posted by Missy82 on 9/27/11 9:09am
Msg #398825

Menacing clients

Any other notaries in CA ever have a hard time explaining to someone why the wording is specific for CA, and that we're not supposed to use incorrect verbiage?
I had a lady that came to me for a simple notarization yesterday. The notary certificate wording was WAY off, and no room for a stamp on the page. So I explained to her that CA is very specific about the wording and it doesn't matter what state the document came from, but the state it's being notarized in. So I attached a loose certificate. As she was leaving, she told me that I'd be liable if it was rejected because "no other wording would be accepted" for the notarization. ?
This isn't the first time someone expressed concern over CA wording. But I know that nobody's documents have ever been rejected because of it, because some of my clients are coworkers and I sometimes get repeat customers (but not because I have to redo a document). I've had some loan signings that every single notarial act was worded incorrectly and needed either a stamp or a loose cert. Nothing's ever been rejected because of that, to my knowledge.
I know I performed my function correctly. That's not the problem. I'm just curious how other people approach this subject with clients, especially when they threaten you. Not the first time I've had to explain why I did a stamp/loose certificate, but it was definitely the first time someone made a huge deal of it like that. From the search button, and remembering back to other threads I've seen, I know this is a hotly debated discussion.

Reply by Lee/AR on 9/27/11 9:22am
Msg #398828

With chronic stuff like this, what I do is do a copy/paste of the exact wording from my handbook in LARGE print, stick it in my briefcase and simply show it to them.

I do sympathize with CA notaries who have to keep adding loose stuff because 'whoever' can't bother getting it right.

I also sympathize with the other 49 states where the good ol' CA 'perjury' wording is included, but NOT correct for that state and always has to be crossed out and often later explained. Yeah, I know some just leave it in & some do correct or add their own state.
To each his own.

Reply by Missy82 on 9/27/11 9:36am
Msg #398831

That's a good idea. Usually, just informing a customer of CA's laws regarding notarial certificates works to satisfy their curiosity. This lady just didn't want to hear it, and I'm quite certain she'd have just scoffed at anything I showed her in print. According to her, NO OTHER WORDING would be accepted under any circumstance, somebody else locally "did it that way" for her previously, and I'd be personally responsible if her document was rejected. I can't spend all day and all night worrying about a demanding, nasty customer when I know I did it correctly. <sigh>
Comes with the territory.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 9/27/11 10:15am
Msg #398837

And don't forget Article IV of the Constitution

Each state must honor the public acts of other states:

Section. 1.

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Reply by Missy82 on 9/27/11 10:27am
Msg #398839

Re: And don't forget Article IV of the Constitution

I didn't cite the constitutional article, but I generalized that fact. She didn't care. I was going to be wrong no matter what.
Right now, I'm working on a document that will point to specific government codes regarding notarial acts. Can't argue (successfully, anyway) with the law. I'll just use it to illustrate why I can't do this or that if a customer gets testy. I carry my handbook in my briefcase, but so far, nobody cares to see the actual reference.
Thanks all, for the input.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/27/11 2:15pm
Msg #398905

Re: And don't forget Article IV of the Constitution

I carry with me a copy of the SOS handbook - the one printed from their office that looks "official" - and show them the source. Sometimes that works. Sometimes you get people who, because they had someone else (who for all we know may have just gotten their commission) do it wrong, they aren't going to listen to anything anyone else tells them, because they think they now know.

BTW, if the document was to be recorded somewhere else, and I was able to check online what wording is recommended (or "required", if you will) by that state, I would use that, as long as it didn't require a capacity, etc. But short of that, I'm quite willing to let that person go find that other notary again, if they're so sure that person knew better than me.

I once had a guy looking for notarization on some docs that were going to China. He insisted that the stamp go on a certain page without the notary wording. We talked at each other for quite a while and eventually agreed to disagree, but I wasn't going to put my stamp and signature on any page that didn't have the correct notarial verbiage on the same page, regardless of what that country insisted they needed. Not my problem.

"I was going to be wrong no matter what."

Yep, that's the bottom line, sometimes, so all you can do is wish them luck and move on. They deserve what they get.

Reply by rengel/CA on 9/27/11 1:19pm
Msg #398878

"I do sympathize with CA notaries who have to keep adding loose stuff because 'whoever' can't bother getting it right."

And the "whoever" is usually a department within the State of California!!!! I get forms with either totally wrong notarial wording or ancient wording.

You'd think the State would know better. Sheesh

My .02

Reply by SharonMN on 9/27/11 11:18am
Msg #398852

Not in CA, but I used to get complaints all the time from administrative assistants who didn't want to bother their boss to actually appear in front of the notary. I explain "This is what a notarial act is, and these are the legal requirements. I assume you are having this notarized because someone has requested a legal notarization. If you don't want a legal notarization, and you'd rather find someone else willing to do it incorrectly for you, that's fine."

Reply by Missy82 on 9/27/11 2:51pm
Msg #398916

I agree with all of these posts. I routinely have to explain how important a notarization actually is, and what the legal ramifications of improper notarization carries. I had a coworker ask me to take her documents at lunch, notarize them, and then bring them back to her. I told her, sorry, no can do, one of the most important requirements to notarize is that you PERSONALLY APPEAR. To which she responded, "Well, who will know?"
Then, walking by her office later, she was telling her office mate, "I can't believe I actually have to be there! She is too strict!" That really makes me wonder where she's gone previously to get something notarized...

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/28/11 4:02am
Msg #399033

It would also make me wonder what other rules or laws she's decided to ignore. What a lack of integrity! The worst part of it is that she apparently sees nothing wrong with it, to the point that she is talking about it to other people in her workplace. If I was her boss, I'd be keeping a close eye on her and would be very concerned about keeping her as an employee! (Of course, there will always be those who will see her attitude as a virtue, but I wouldn't want to be working for anyone with that kind of attitude...)