Posted by Pam/TN on 9/25/11 5:03pm
Msg #398630

Needing to vent...

For the past few days my phone has been busy, all with $50 or $75 closings. Some of these were up to 100 mile round trip. I would repsond by telling them my fee, which they all said they would have to get back with me if they got it approved. A couple SS called back and said "we can offer you $75." NO WAY.

If these out of state loan companies/title companies did not use mobile notaries a local title company or attorney would have to be used. I know for a fact title companies (locally) charge $350 for a closing - attorneys are $250 & up, and neither of these will travel to the borrower, the borrower comes to them. Which I understand their fees would be higher than a NSA, but compared to what the SS/title companies are offering, it's an insult. Plus NSA's are waiting
sometimes 45 -60 days for compensation, when the loan/title/SS companies get their money when loan is funded.

It seems that borrowers are more lax when you go to them, it's hard to conduct professional business with kids screaming, dogs jumping and barking, TV blaring, phone ringing, or if they even bother to remember they made the appointment. I know these circumstances do not happen all the time. And yes, I do ask them to turn off TV, or put the dogs up - and yes, I always, always confirm appointment, but there have been a few times, "it completely slipped their mind"

I told the last company that called and said they could go $75, (docs overnighted - 80 miles round trip),"with the fee you are offering the borrower comes to me, The money you are offering does not compensate for a mobile notary. I am running a business, not a charity for the loan companies/title companies/SS to make more money."

Sorry for the long message, just needed to vent.

Reply by Lee/AR on 9/25/11 5:54pm
Msg #398635

Good points made n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/25/11 7:14pm
Msg #398640

<<<I told the last company that called and said they could go $75, (docs overnighted - 80 miles round trip),"with the fee you are offering the borrower comes to me,.....>>>

I think it can be feasible to accept $75 signing fees on the following terms:

A) No more edoc - only overnight docs to the Notary.

B) Notary is only responsible for the execution of the notarized pages. The rest is just "point and sign".

C) If borrowers live 10 miles or less from Notary, then Notary travels to borrower. If not, borrowers and Notary meet at the 10 mile mark from the Notary's home/office at Starbucks or McDonalds.

D) Loan signing fee paid outside of closing (POC) to Notary at the time of the signing by borrowers and in cash.

E) Borrower responsible for including cashier's check (if applicable) and any photocopies requested (i.e. DL, paystubs, tax returns, etc.).

F) Borrower is responsible for any fax-backs and to ship package back to TC.

In summary: Notary shows up and notarizes signatures, points and borrowers sign the rest, hands package to borrower, collects $75 cash from borrower and leaves.

Reply by Pam/TN on 9/25/11 7:37pm
Msg #398641

Agreed!!! n/m

Reply by docs1954CA on 9/25/11 7:53pm
Msg #398642

As usual Lisa you make great points,except for this one


"In summary: Notary shows up and notarizes signatures, points and borrowers sign the rest, hands package to borrower, collects $75 cash from borrower and leaves".

How about; Notary shows up and notarizes signatures,borrowers sign the balance on their OWN TIME.They are solely responsible for any missing dates or signatures/initials.

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/25/11 7:55pm
Msg #398643

Re: As usual Lisa you make great points,except for this one

You're right.....Notary leaves after completing the notarizations. Borrower can handle the rest on their own time.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 9/25/11 10:07pm
Msg #398652

An argument could be made , that under the functions

proposed by you, and as disucussed in the responses , that a NP performing those functiions, and being paid by the borrower , would be limited to State Maximum notary fees.
In Illinois, that would be $1 per . Il law is silent on the issue of travel fees , so I can not say what, if anything, could be legally charged for travel.
The legal justification for our fees in excess of state maximums is the fact that we are hired by and paid by a third party, and are performing many services and functions beyond those of
"just a notary"

Reply by Susan Fischer on 9/25/11 10:50pm
Msg #398654

Good job, Bob. We are 'remote closers.' That profession

requires particularized knowledge; requires professional insurances; the ability to read, comprehend, and follow state and federal laws; and the ability and wherewithall to deal with a diverse public representing the Lending Industry in a professional manner.

There is so much pleasure in the 'flipping' that final doc, and that gentle high-five: my palms to his and her borrowers'; and our satisfaction of our smoothly efficient presentation and execution.

True remote closers set their wages - because we earn them.

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/26/11 12:17am
Msg #398659

Re: Good job, Bob. We are 'remote closers.' That profession

Susan, you're missing my point, which is: You get what you pay for. That's the bottom line. If companies want NSA's to provide the professional services you spoke of, then they need to pay for it. If they're not willing to pay for it then there are services - limited though - that fits in their budget.

They want a portehouse steak, but want to pay for a hotdog. If a hotdog is only what they're willing to pay for then that's they get (from me, at least).

Reply by Notarysigner on 9/26/11 7:44am
Msg #398671

Agree with all of you

I agree with ALL of you LKT and Susan and Bob. However, in Lisa's post she is saying, and I agree is if all you what is notarization, then for $75.00 you are still getting a "discounted" price. Four Docs with two Sigs each totals $80.00. That's the fee we're allowed doing general notary work without travel!

Now the professional service offered, yes I buy into that also because it makes us all feel good, it's a great Job. IMO

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 9/25/11 8:32pm
Msg #398647

Brilliant

<<I told the last company that called and said they could go $75, (docs overnighted - 80 miles round trip),"with the fee you are offering the borrower comes to me, The money you are offering does not compensate for a mobile notary. I am running a business, not a charity for the loan companies/title companies/SS to make more money.">>

So, what'd they say?

I think this is the way to go. I've often thought we should take the "mobile" out of notary when the fees get ridiculous. I would bet they would choke, gasp and hang up on us at the thought of our not providing Red Carpet First Class service (at Coach prices.) Some SSs may go for it, but then lenders/Realtors/TCs would probably start howling that their clients were "inconvenienced." But as long as we're clear up-front and have an agreement, I think it's a great idea. What do you have to lose by trying? Nutin'!

Reply by Les_CO on 9/25/11 9:53pm
Msg #398651

Re: Brilliant

Won’t work!
The only reason they call us is BECAUSE we are mobile (and cheap). If they really wanted the borrower to go to some local Title Companies office (courtesy closing) or to a local attorneys’ office they would do that. MOBILE is our first and MOST important name. Now if only ‘WE’ all understood that what we do would cost The Title companies/Lenders more than twice what we charge, three times what most offer, our totally necessary participation in the process would be a bit more equitable. JMO

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/25/11 10:32pm
Msg #398653

Re: Brilliant

From the OP: <<<For the past few days my phone has been busy, all with $50 or $75 closings. Some of these were up to 100 mile round trip.>>>

From Les: <<<Won’t work! >>>

And also what won't work is driving 50 miles one way, fax-backs, and 150 page signings for a fee of $50 - $75.

Reply by Pam/TN on 9/25/11 11:25pm
Msg #398655

Re: Brilliant

Actually she said it didn't matter where the closing was held, as long as confidential information wasn't compromised. But this was just one company.

The only problem she seemed to have was when I asked how long to receive payment and she said 45 days - and I said I would like to be paid a week after funding of loan, on this she wasn't very flexible.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 9/26/11 12:16am
Msg #398658

Re: Brilliant

<< ...as long as confidential information wasn't compromised.>>

Wonder what the heck that means?

In any case, you go, Pam! You got the OK to cut back on a huge portion of our expenses - car, & gas, not to mention time. If I was told that by a hiring agency, I almost wouldn't care how long they took to pay!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/26/11 12:28am
Msg #398660

Re: Brilliant

I think you and Lisa may be on to something. Again, this assumes we're talking about the companies that call with ridiculous expectations for the fee they're willing to pay. Somehow the idea of what they can get for the fees they're offering has gotten distorted all out of proportion with some companies. We all know it's because some people who don't know any better are accepting those assignments.

BUT, if instead of just saying no, we countered with what they could get for the lousy fee they're willing to pay, it might begin to at least give some them a different perspective of how much service the rest of us think those fees can pay for... Most of them won't care, but maybe we could begin to chip away tiny piece by tiny piece on the perception that our services are worth so little. If we do no more than stem the downward pressure on fees, it would be a positive thing.

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/26/11 12:35am
Msg #398663

7 Star Post, Janet!! n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 9/26/11 7:32am
Msg #398669

What about the borrowers? Are you going to tell them that

they only get "point & sign" service because you were only paid for that level of service?
It is the borrowers who are paying the fee. I know I provide a level of service that ensures they are getting someone who understands the process, can guide them through the docs, and make for a painless signing. Also, if you get called into court by borrowers who claim they got rushed through the process, are you going to explain to the judge it was because of a low fee? I think you assume a lot of liability in the concept of cut-rate service for cut-rate fees.
BTW, I don't get those calls for low-ball fees. The word must be out that it would be a waste of time for call me for those. LOL

Reply by Donna McDaniel on 9/26/11 9:16am
Msg #398676

Re: What about the borrowers? Are you going to tell them that

I agree with Marian. If I can't conduct a proper presentation, I won't do the signing. The borrowers are paying for the full closing service and I believe that's what they should get and price accordingly.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 9/26/11 1:04pm
Msg #398718

Rocking the boat

<<What about the borrowers? Are you going to tell them that they only get "point & sign" service because you were only paid for that level of service?>>

No, I never discuss my fee with the borrower, even when they ask, because my fee is none of their business. What is their business is whatever fee the settlement statement shows, but, of course, it's never what we're getting paid (even tho we're worth every penny or more)!

While I love my borrowers (call me Susan Fisher the Second) and I try to make every signing go well for them in every way, we don't work for them. Yes, they are paying a notary fee but not to us. (Would that they were!) We work for hiring agencies, and our levels of service should be commensurate with the fee they will pay. For example, airlines do not provide champagne, hot towels, sirloin and chocolate treats to passengers who pay coach fare, but they do to their First Class-paying passengers. So, NSAs who would like to work need to figure out how to provide the necessary service while not going into the hole financially when dealing with the $25-$60 payers. It's good you don't have to deal with this (I never get these calls, either), but many other notaries get lo-ball offers every day, and many of us are trying to figure out ways to deal with this new (tragic) dynamic. Clearly things cannot continue same ole, same ole. It's like StarKist - we're paying the same price for a can of tuna, but the can's smaller now.

<<Also, if you get called into court by borrowers who claim they got rushed through the process, are you going to explain to the judge it was because of a low fee? I think you assume a lot of liability in the concept of cut-rate service for cut-rate fees. >>

As I understand it, this statement implies there is some legal doctrine setting forth LSA conduct within certain price ranges, and that if a step is omitted or if a step is out of sync with a certain fee level, we'll end up in court. Our courts have far bigger fish to fry. And less service does not mean rushed. Nobody said anything about rushing a borrower. Notaries are weighing ideas about cutting down on expensive travel, time spent running docs to FedEx, and walking a borrower through a 175 page loan pkg, or sitting there while borrowers call their LO, who never answers, etc. when they are not being compensated for this. It's a good idea to "think outside the box" and offer constructive help/criticism. Fees are plummeting dramatically in many instances, and many notaries may need to change, too, if they want to stay in business.

I am not a "point & sign" notary (mainly because I wouldn't know how to get through a loan signing that way) but many who receive "full fee" are. I had a signing Saturday where the Realtor was present and she commented later she appreciated the way I went through the docs with her client because "all" the notaries she has dealt with in my neck o' the woods say at the beginning they are not allowed to discuss the docs - and don't.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 9/26/11 1:16pm
Msg #398720

Excellent post, GoldenGirl. So many nails hit right on the

head.

=^..^=

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/26/11 2:51pm
Msg #398730

My thoughts, too. Thanks, GoldenGirl!

I should add that I wasn't thinking in terms of service provided to the borrower, but services provided to our clients - the ss or tc. Borrowers will be borrowers, but some of them might be willing to do the driving, for example, if that's what their tc requested in order to save a few dollars. I think I'd have a hard time being the one to request that, but then I don't get those low-ball calls either.

but something has to give somewhere, because the amount of work some of those companies are expecting notaries to do for what they're willing to pay is just a non-starter. Like I believe someone said above, we're not in this business to provide charity - and I suspect none here would want to be in the position of needing to ask for charity because their business is losing money as a result of accepting such low fees.

Reply by Notarysigner on 9/26/11 7:49am
Msg #398672

Re: Brilliant

This sounds good Janet, I'll have to give it a try...once.