Posted by LatteLady/NV on 4/4/12 10:48pm
Msg #417011

Notaries and the HIPAA Laws

If a notary mentions on a social networking site that a person at ABC hospital threw up on them, is it violating the HIPAA laws? The persons name was not mentioned, just the hospitals name. As far as I know, notaries have not taken an oath to have a gag order against patients in a hospital. It makes sense that anyone who works for the hospital in any manner must not mention anything about a patient on a social media website. That would definately be crossing the line, but a notary mentioning about something that happened to them, not mentioning names shouldn't be a violation. Right?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 4/4/12 11:39pm
Msg #417014

Obviously... not an attorney here... so this is just my experienced opinion having worked with and dealt with organizations that are covered under HIPAA.

My easy answer would be no... under federal law, there's nothing wrong in the experience you describe, primarily because no personal information was given out about any person. The hospital itself is not a protected entity.

A lot of people don't realize the HIPAA is actually quite limited as to who must comply. Those entities are: health care providers, health care plans (health insurance, Medicaid, etc.) and certain information sources that process certain information, including those who may be contractors of or having billing agreements with those organizations.

Employers, schools, LIFE insurance companies, WORKER'S COMP insurance companies, state and county offices (such a child and family services), law enforcement and other similar entities are not required, under federal law, to comply with HIPAA. Some states may impose more strict rules.

People who visit patients in a hospital are not required to comply with HIPAA because it is generally expected that if the patient invites you and knows you are present when disclosures are made, then that person is under no obligation to keep that private unless they expressly make you aware that you shouldn't.


That's SUPER basic, of course... but I don't think that a visitor to a hospital who says, "Somebody at St. Luke's threw up on me once," is a violation of anything because that "somebody" can't be identified by that statement.

Reply by MW/VA on 4/5/12 2:43pm
Msg #417067

I agree with Marian here. HIPPA Laws are for the

privacy of medical info & medical records by the health care industry & doesn't apply to use.
We are, however, bound for privacy of ALL info under GLBA.
IMO it's best to be careful about what you say, to whom you say it, and where you say it.
Things posted on the internet are the same as being "written in stone".

Reply by MikeC/TX on 4/5/12 5:59pm
Msg #417102

Correction

"We are, however, bound for privacy of ALL info under GLBA"

GLBA only applies to loan signings as far as notaries are concerned, and we're not actually bound to ANYTHING according to that law - it's the implementation of GLBA by various financial institutions that determines what we can and cannot do.

However, we are bound by common sense and basic ethics to not discuss the specifics of ANY transaction we're involved with...

Reply by Clem/CA on 4/5/12 1:11am
Msg #417017

Throwing up.... Gag order.....LOL

Reply by ME/NJ on 4/5/12 7:28am
Msg #417018

If no name or SS number of the patient was given then HIPPA law was not broken. The whole point of HIPPA is to protect the ID and information of the patient. If you notice even sign in sheets at the doctors office should be covered up only exposing the line you sign.

I had to set up Doctors groups ten years ago when this first came out.

Reply by ArtG/KS on 4/5/12 8:28am
Msg #417021

First, why even mention this on any social networking sight? There is no need to do that. Second we are still under Gramm Leach Bliley and in rare cases the Sarbanes Oxiley Act.

When asked about privacy, I tell borrowers that if someone else mentioned they did see my car parked in front of their residence, I would still deny I was there. Non whatsoever is it their business. When in a hospital setting, privacy of patients and even employees is confidential unless you see a blantant criminal act taking place, and even then proper reporting procedures should be followed rather than making it a gossip-fest scenario.

This is not to offend but help us all achieve a professional level here. Believe me, Ive learned a few lessons over these past 12 years.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 4/5/12 9:05am
Msg #417025

Unless one is somehow affiliated with a health care entity, I can't imagine how revealing information about a hospital patient would violate HIPPA, even if one did state the patient's name; one isn't subject to HIPPA. Now, if one were hired by a health insurance company, auto insurance company providing no-fault injury coverage, or any other company having anything to do with health, further investigation would be required.

If any part of what one put on a social networking site repeated what was in one's notary journal, one might be guilty of unauthorized disclosure of the contents of the journal, if one's state protects journal information. Although my state does not require a journal, if I keep a journal, it is a public record, just the same as the records of any other public officer, and certain types of entries are protected from disclosure.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 4/5/12 9:14am
Msg #417026

I totally agree that there is a level of professionalism that takes place over a lot of things.... but ethics and the law are not the same thing. Legally, there really is nothing wrong with relating a general experience of what happened. Saying, "Somebody threw up on me at a hospital once, " is hardly unprofessional. It's relating an experience. Even naming the exact hospital is hardly an issue for me, anyway. Beyond that... I'd avoid referencing dates or other specifics that could be used to piece things together, but it doesn't make it illegal. Again, the entities whoa re required to comply with HIPAA are very narrow in scope. Others may choose to do so voluntarily, but they don't have to, under Federal law.

And, we are not necessarily obligated to comply under GLB and SOA, either. I'm not saying that we shouldn't.... but that we aren't necessarily obligated to. Its important to remember that state laws can also be more restrictive about these things.

For example, I was asked to notarize some documents for an individual once who I knew to be a prominent leader in a particular community. The documents being signed were ones that shocked me... its was a very personal issue, clearly, but it was 100% "not in character" for this person. Let's just say, he wasn't "practicing what he preached." There's nothing wrong with me expressing this because it's very general, and nobody could possible know the person I'm speaking about or what the situation involved. Legally, there's nothing preventing me from tell people exactly who is this person is or what was going on. I could have easily shared the situation... but I chose not to because there's a level of ethics there and unless I learn something illegal or dangerous, I'm keeping my mouth shut.

But there is a caveat to that! Here in CA we have to record the names and nature of the document in our journals, among other things. It is, technically, a matter of public record because anyone who knows the general date (month and year), names of the person and type of document can request a copy of the journal entry, and I have to comply. I cannot be held responsible for obeying state law by releasing that information if it is properly requested by any John Q. Public who may know about it or go on a fishing expedition for records. Trust me, it happens, too. A few wise private detectives and journalists know exactly how to work the system, and they discover things quite easily.

Does that mean we should go gossiping about things? No... because there's a matter of professional ethics that supersede these things... but it doesn't make them illegal.