Posted by Bernice/CA on 4/12/12 1:00pm
Msg #417694

Notarizing title on Acknoweldgement Form

Good morning CA Notaries,

When notarizing an Acknowledgement form, if the per-printed name has a title next to the name do you cross out the title and initial the change?

I've looked in the Notary Handbook and do not see anywhere where it specifically says you cannot notify a title. HELP!

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 4/12/12 1:19pm
Msg #417697

Personally, I use my stamp: "Notarial Certificate attached."

I stamp on the Certificate provided and I complete a lawful Notarial Certificate and attach it to the document.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 4/12/12 1:32pm
Msg #417700

I cross thru & initial.

CA notaries not allowed to notarize capacity.

Reply by sealed/CA on 4/12/12 1:31pm
Msg #417698

Hi Bernice,
Yes. You need to line through the title and initial, or as Stephanie suggested, attach a loose leaf CA ack. You will need to do one or the other as we cannot certify capacity in CA.

Reply by sealed/CA on 4/12/12 1:33pm
Msg #417703

Just to be clear. You are not lining through anything on the document itself, just in the notarial certificate.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 4/12/12 1:32pm
Msg #417701

Correct. CA notaries do not attest to titles, capacities, trustees, etc. Just individuals, name only. (Or you can always attach your own CA compliant and legal loose ack if you think the lender won't like a cross out on the preprinted ack, although I have never had a problem doing so).

Reply by Bernice/CA on 4/12/12 2:15pm
Msg #417705

Thank you all for your response...

I do know that if we change the wording on the acknowledgment and add capacity it makes the acknowledgement unacceptable which is why I crossed out the capacity and initialed the change but was told that I'm the only Notary that has ever made that change.

I did reference to the s.s. the Notary Handbook where it says we can notarize as individual but it does not specifically state that capacity can not be listed next to persons name on the acknowledgement line and that's where the issue lies with the company attorney.

Section 1189 (c) of the Civil Code does reference ...
"On documents to be filed in another state or jurisdiction of
the United States, a California notary public may complete any
acknowledgment form as may be required in that other state or
jurisdiction on a document, provided the form does not require the
notary to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular
representative capacity or to make other determinations and
certifications not allowed by California law. "

however this is regarding out of state acknowledgement forms...

Thanks for your help.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 4/12/12 3:44pm
Msg #417719

As to your first point: Yes, you may actually be the only notary to ever cross our capacity,(highly unlikely, though; I think they're bullying you) but that might be if you are the first CA notary they've seen. Other states have no problem with capacity, titles, etc., but they are verbotin for CA notaries.

As for the company attorney, yes, we may use other states' ack forms BUT only if that form does not require us to determine or certify capacity or anything else not allowed by California law. What doesn't that attorney get, I wonder?

Reply by rengel/CA on 4/12/12 4:57pm
Msg #417726

The attorney doesn't get it

because the attorney doesn't want to get it. I've had attorneys ask me to do MANY things that are illegal for a California notary to do. They think they know the law, but I KNOW that I KNOW California notary law. Since it would be my butt sitting in jail or paying a huge fine, I make darn sure that I know what is legal and what is illegal.

And, as I told them, "I don't like you enough to sit in jail for you!' Usually brings a laugh and a mea culpa.

My .02

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/12/12 3:44pm
Msg #417720

"...but it does not specifically state that capacity can not be listed next to persons name on the acknowledgement line..."

I think that's exactly what does state and I'm clearly not the only one. Please re-read this quote from the code - a few times, if necessary (and tell the ss to do the same thing):

"...provided the form does not require the notary to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity..."

In my experience, this sentence has always been interpreted to mean that a California notary cannot certify capacity on ANY acknowledgment certificate under any circumstances - and I think that's pretty clear. I think you did the right thing by crossing out the capacity and I always do the same thing (as long as the rest of the ack is acceptable). I can't recall ever being questioned about that.

If they're telling you that you're the first one who has ever made that change, I can think of a few possible explanations:

1. That situation has never come up before with any of the documents their notaries have ever received (highly unlikely); or
2. They consistently hire ignorant notaries who don't have a clue; or
3. They don't have a clue and don't understand Civil Code Section 1189; or
3. They're just flat out lying to you to appease some employee working for a client in another state who doesn't get it and doesn't want to be bothered checking it out; or
4. They're just flat out lying to you because they don't want to have to do any push-back to their client and they don't really care.

Did I miss anything?

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but this is pretty much Notary 101 in California. It bothers me when signing services or lenders, etc. try to argue with notaries about how to do the most basic part of our job, although I understand that they, unfortunately, sometimes have a good reason to do so these days. We all need to know this stuff cold - well enough to be willing and able to stand our ground and defend what's required under our own states' notary laws.

Reply by Bernice/CA on 4/13/12 12:03am
Msg #417760

You know, the answer to that questionis is right here:

Acknowledgment
The form most frequently completed by the notary public is the certificate of acknowledgment. The certificate of acknowledgment must be in the form set forth in Civil Code section 1189. In the certificate of acknowledgment, the notary public certifies:
• That the signer personally appeared before the notary public on the date indicated in the county indicated;
• To the identity of the signer; and
• That the signer acknowledged executing the document.

Nowhere does it say a notary can notarize the capacity of an individual.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 4/13/12 1:46am
Msg #417763

Bernice... this is basic CA law...

It is 100% against the law to certify capacity (or titles). CA Civil Code 1189 states that the notary cannot determine or certify capacity of the signer... and that includes writing the title after a name.

You cannot even allow this for "out of state" documents requesting you to do this... and it is expressly noted. See page 11 of the current handbook.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 4/13/12 1:52am
Msg #417764

Regarding out of state forms... you need to be VERY careful. Note that the form has to be REQUIRED... and as far as I've found, there are no such requirements by any state... therefore, using out of state wording is essentially impossible to do. You can't just use any ole wording because the requester is out of state or that they'll be sent out of state. It must be REQUIRED wording by the state for filing. I've asked and asked people to find me a state that has required wording for filing... there isn't one. Even California law says that legally performed notarizations from out of state are perfectly acceptable in California.

The notarial certificate is YOURS... the wording is what YOUR are saying and swearing to under penalty of perjury. If you leave wording the mentions title or capacity of the person, then you are in direct violation of CA notary law.

I very much dislike it when people fill in notarial certificates for me, because nearly every time, it's incorrect in some manner. I know they're trying to help, but it just makes things worse.