Posted by Carol Graff on 4/11/12 5:49pm
Msg #417624

Watch out for Provident Loans

I already knew they were the pickiest lender on the planet. I got a call that they would not fund the loan as I crossed out the Florida ACK and put my CA. ACK stamp there instead.
I have been using my ACK stamp more now as many don't like us stapling the loose certs (new law per CA SOS). However, they said they would use my loose certs--how was I supposed to know that? Then, they are making me redo the whole package as under the borrowers names if there are any blank lines, I put a horizontal line thru it as I was instructed in notary classes 3 years ago---never leave blank spaces.

Anyone have bad experiences with them also? I knew it was PRovident so I was very careful not to have any mistakes on the loan docs. Now the borrower, and SA are furious--it seems you can't win--the notary is always at fault.

Reply by Les_CO on 4/11/12 6:04pm
Msg #417625

Yes ... I've done many…(not to say I like doing them) Do as instructed (within the law) Don’t change ANYTHING on a provident loan. Provident sells loans every day, they mostly get NSA’s (through contractors) to have their loan packages signed. There are innumerable posts here as how to proceed if you get a Provident loan…It’s simple…Don't change anything! Don’t guess…do as instructed…If you can’t figure that out, ask someone how to proceed.

Reply by Signerbill on 4/11/12 6:11pm
Msg #417626

Prov. is getting a bad reputation and in my area, there are many who will not take their packages anymore. I just had a call from a borrower who is trying to find a notary that has $500,000 e/o for his Provident loan. When I asked why escrow did arrange it he told me that they were tired of calling around trying to find somone.
Interesting thing is that I do Prov. signings thru a s/s and have never been asked about my e/o insurance.

Reply by Les_CO on 4/11/12 6:23pm
Msg #417631

Some SS have an ‘umbrella’ liability policy that covers the notaries they use (usually one million dollars) this is acceptable to provident. If I get a direct call.... I say my policy is $100,000. If you require more call this SS that I work with, they have one million dollar coverage that extends to me if I work for them. Works every time. I get paid,the SS gets paid and all are happy.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 4/11/12 7:06pm
Msg #417636

You could have used the ack stamp on a loose piece of paper. You would know that if you called for instructions. The frist time i had to change an ack on a loan I called for instructions. they told me to attach a loose ack.
The notary IS at fault if they don't call and ask for instructions!

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 4/11/12 7:41pm
Msg #417639

Hi, Carol, A few things perplex me about your post. Since you already knew Provident was the pickiest lender on the planet (Amen to that!) you "shoulda known" they don't like any marks on their docs that are not meant to be there. In fact, that's my rule of thumb for ANY lender docs: Do not make any marks, changes, etc. that aren't supposed to be there.

As far as what your notary class taught 3 years ago, are you saying that you draw lines through loan docs where there are blank spaces? Such as: if there is space for 4 borrowers or 6 borrowers to sign, but only two borrowers are signing, you draw horizontal lines through the blank signing lines? This is beyond anything I've ever heard of. Am I confused or are you by chance confusing this with the rule that we cannot notarize signatures on docs that contain blanks that NEED to be filled in? Not all blanks are meant to be filled in, some blanks wouldn't apply to the signers, etc. In any case, on a doc that needed to be notarized and that contained blanks that did not need to be completed, I still would never draw a line through anything. Especially, Provident.

But back to your ack stamp; I never use mine on a doc that will be recorded because it's so small and I'm afraid a CA county recorder will reject it as not meeting size requirements. I also couldn't care less that "many don't like us stapling loose certs." It's a CA SOS requirement that these whining lenders and TCs are just going to have to get used to. Bending over backwards so as not to tick off a TC or SS instead of using a stapled loose leaf as directed by the SOS got you in trouble. We can always justify our use of a stapled loose leaf, not so much the use of our stamp. As for using your ack stamp on a Provident loan - WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? (Sorry, I really sympathize with you cos I've been there with Provident.)

Reply by ToniK on 4/11/12 7:50pm
Msg #417641

I have done one Provident loan. I avoided them for years based on the feedback I seen about them. But this time I just wanted to see for myself what the hoopla was about. I did the loan and I didnt cross anything out. The Borrower had written over the date, I write my number "7" with a line through it they thought it was a "4"...so I had to go back out and do those particular docs over.

So I experienced a few things. The company did give me detailed information on how to do a Provident and stated they wanted no cross outs what so ever. I had to make sure the BO were extra careful. Needless to say it was too time consuming trying to make sure the BO didnt cross out. You only have so many copies to replace at the table. lol

That was my last provident loan. I have no desire to do anymore of them.

Reply by jba/fl on 4/11/12 10:54pm
Msg #417652

My experience reflects yours, ToniK. I also do a 7 with a line (European style) to distinguish from 1's but did not have any kickbacks. Then again, perhaps there was no 7 in the docs for me to do. My BO was so uncooperative I am surprised that a couple of things flew - after already pulling from BO's copy and admonishing them. So, I ended with a different perspective, but, in the final analysis, I don't care to do another. Too time consuming worrying about unnecessary stuff.

Reply by Clem/CA on 4/11/12 7:52pm
Msg #417642

If they were all like Provident We would all be white glove. Learn from it and say thank you for making me better at my job. Turn that negative into a positive! I know you will not make that mistake again. You are now a better SA for it. As I hope you are sticking to your rules and fees, they too are. Pay the price of admision and enjoy the ride... it only gets better!!

Reply by Buddy Young on 4/11/12 9:54pm
Msg #417648

I drew a line through an ack with impropper wording and attached a loose leaf doc once and title was not happy that i did that on their doc. They called the SS and told them they sould teach their notaries how to handle loan docs. The loan did however fund and I was paid.

After that I had a stamp made that says " California compliant certificate attached"
No complaints so far, and I don't write on any improperly worded certificates.

Reply by janCA on 4/11/12 9:59pm
Msg #417649

I've been crossing out for 10 years.

I always cross out a cert that is not CA compliant, initial and write, please see attached certificate. I've never had a problem with that.

I did my first Provident a couple of weeks ago through an SS. I asked the escrow officer about this very thing of crossing out the incorrect cert. She said not a problem.

Reply by Carol Graff on 4/11/12 10:45pm
Msg #417651

Re: I've been crossing out for 10 years.

Thanks, Janet. That's exactly how I handled it also with stamp saying see att'd loose cert.
However, do you ever put lines thru the blank signature spaces as I was told to do in notary class?

Reply by JAM/CA on 4/11/12 11:24pm
Msg #417654

Re: I've been crossing out for 10 years.

Love Provident loans. They want perfection and that's what I strive for with loan documents. No need to cross out additional signature lines. It's clear the only signature lines signed are the one's with the name under them.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 4/12/12 12:31am
Msg #417656

Now I'm confoozed

..more so than usual!

I understood original post to say notary used her ACK stamp on the deed and did not attach a loose certificate, and that's one of the reasons Provident rejected the loan. It was not because notary lined out the Florida ack. I'm sure it would be fine with Provident (though you never know with them) if a notary used standard procedure: cross out noncompliant ack, initial and attached a loose certificate. But OP said she didn't do that (as I undertood it.)
Also, like Buddy I have a stamp that says: CA compliant certificate attached. I got that idea from Marian, and it works great!

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 4/12/12 12:43am
Msg #417658

Yup, that stamp I use works wonders... shuts 'em up

To be perfectly honest, no TC has any right to dictate to you how you handle your notarial certificates, whether they are preprinted or not.

If they are that picky, then they need to make sure their certificates are compliant to CA law if the docs will be notarized in California. It's not exactly rocket science.

These are copies of the stamps I use... I love them. I don't believe is just writing "see attached" because that isn't at all helpful to the recipient. If your notation references *why* you're attaching something else, they can't blame you... they can go read the law for themselves.

[img]http://www.highdesertnotary.com/images/attachstamps.jpg[/img]

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 4/12/12 12:44am
Msg #417659

oops....

I swear, I always mess that up... every forum has different codes.

http://www.highdesertnotary.com/images/attachstamps.jpg

Reply by MonicaFL on 4/12/12 9:01am
Msg #417672

Re: I've been crossing out for 10 years.

I don't cross anything out I just note to "see attached ack (or jurat)" then on that attached document I always note underneath my signature and seal "This ack or jurat (whichever) is attached to a document entitled (whatever) with a date of _____ and signed by ___________________". Never had any problems with that.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 4/11/12 11:29pm
Msg #417655

I signed a Provident one day
And it simply would not go away.
The slash came back – “No! No! No! No.”
And then the stamp just had to go.

My mind’s made up. From now on out,
Though Prov may scream, and yell, and shout
I’m absolutely unrelenting:
I’ll go no more a-Providenting.

Reply by RickG/CA on 4/12/12 12:31am
Msg #417657

meh...I kinda like em!

it's not like they're asking us to do something illegal. No stray marks, be clear on the date, each person sign and date they're own etc.

I had one the other day that was supposedly rejected and needed a re-sign because the processor could tell if it was a 3 or an 8. (all her 3's were very curvy) Fully aware of my instruction that the date needed to be clear, the BO said "that's how I write." I was paid in full and not asked to go back out. I'm called for maybe 4-5 signings a year for this co, so we'll see if I'm still on the "good list".

Reply by desktopfull on 4/12/12 10:21am
Msg #417684

Had to redo one because borrower's didn't write date

exactly the same on every page requesting a date. I quit taking any work from Provident after that. On another one, they sent it back because I drew a line through "Oregon" as the state in the venue and wrote in "Florida." They wanted me to attach separate acknowledgements instead of correcting the venue on the one in the document.

Reply by BBuchler/CA on 4/12/12 2:16pm
Msg #417706

And this is EXACTLY why I want all the general notarizations I can get. I can follow the rules like everyone else, but I don't need to stress out because someone has more elaborate writing than someone else and someone else can't be sure of the number or date.

Reply by Carol Graff on 4/12/12 6:49pm
Msg #417739

AMEN!!! Thanks for all of your responses. Two more trips today and finally got it to UPS. No more Provident loans for me.