Posted by Joan Bergstrom on 12/13/12 9:45pm
Msg #446482

A comment on why notaries in CA work for $65

I posted some of this a couple of months ago. I was teaching notary classes in both Anaheim and Pasadena and had a conversation with one of the loan signers who works for this fee and one of people in management for a company who pays $65.

1st the signer: I was checking in students and heard her take 5-6 assignments over the phone so I knew she was a loan signer. We started talking and she told me who she worked for and it was one of the 3-4 real low paying companies and I asked her why she worked for
them at that $65 fee and she said they give her 5-6 per day and she doesn't drive much more than 5-10 miles.

I told her I work at the most 3 a day for the same amount of money and often only do 2 to arrive at a $300+
She (and the others like her) isn't trying to under cut another notary, she just doesn't know how to advertise herself and thinks this is the way to make $300 a day.

I have had this type of conversation at my notary classes (8 years teaching) and it's always the same response :VOLUME

I always encourage them to become a premier member at notrot and sign up with all the 4-5 star companies. They won't as they are comfortable with these companies.

Calif doesn't have enough notaries for these companies to fill the loan signing requests at the EOM and that is where the manager(s) of the companies comes in.

#2 management/owner of these companies: They usually send someone if their company to a notary class so they have a notary on board.

They all tell me that CA is becoming a nightmare at EOM.

Calif is the only state they can't get notaries at this fee because we are down to 158,500 notaries for 37 million people and the vast majority of them don't know how to do loan signings.

Why a CA notary would walk out the door for less than $100 I have no idea?

These companies tell me the other 49 states are easy to get notaries for $65 it's just CA that is a nightmare for them and the number of notaries in CA is still declining every month.

Just my thoughts on the $65 loan signer.
I know I am overwhelmed with signing requests.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/13/12 10:00pm
Msg #446483

"Ca is a nightmare for them" ---

Well, gee... there's a good, darn reason CA has lost well over half our notaries in the last 4 years. It's been a nightmare for *US* as well. The laws are getting tighter, our expenses have gone WAY, WAY up, and that's only part of it.

Now that they've gone and made this ridiculous decision to allow felons to obtain a commission after 10 years, all the money we spend to get fingerprinted and get background checked up through the FBI level is going to mean NOTHING to the banks and escrow companies. The mere fact that a CA notary *could* be a convicted felons now (even though it's been 10+ years and they've been adjudicated to be rehabilitated), these companies may still not want felons handling loan documents or other sensitive paperwork. The XYZ is loving this, I'm sure...because they're ready to pounce on the advertising opportunity... to sell the background checks to VERIFY that we're not actually felons.

It wouldn't be that much of a nightmare for them if they ponied up decent fees. It's a matter of supply and demand.

The idea of volume is a fallacy. There is no volume work in this business. It's just not possible.

THe problem is, as she said... they don't know how to advertise themselves. They lack business education and business skills.

Reply by Priscilla Witman on 12/13/12 10:09pm
Msg #446485

I've never understood the "volume" argument.

Seems like a whole lot more work for a lot less money.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 12/13/12 10:11pm
Msg #446486

The cost to become a notary in CA is probably in $250 -$300 range depending on how you shop and that definitely keeps the number of notary declining in CA.

The felony part, I am not sure how many it will apply?

We'll see in the next year.

I know from teaching that the DUI if far and away the most common problem.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/13/12 10:31pm
Msg #446487

I was recently called to do a signing at a credit union that no longer has a notary in their branch. The manager there said that their corporate office refuses to cover the cost anymore because the last two they had both left within a couple months of obtaining their commission. It's easier for them to just have an outside notary come in than spend the money to have one of their employees do it -- it's not the basic cost of becoming a notary. When an employer does it, they also have to cover other related expenses, too, such as training and travel time, time off, insurance, liability, etc. More and more the biggest drop in notaries is because employers are refusing to cover the cost for their employees because it's getting expensive and the liability issues are high.

As for the felonies...it doesn't really matter to how many people it will actually apply. In fact, my guess it will not really apply to many at all... but just the mere possibility that it *can* happen at this point is all these companies need to know. Anyone holding a CA notary commission may possibly be a convicted felon because the CA Sec of State has now declared that it's okay. ... oh, we still have to go through the whole process, but there's no guarantee any longer that the mere fact that we have a commission means we're not felons anymore. Whereas as of last month, it did.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 12/13/12 10:53pm
Msg #446489

The real problem for most companies is they send the least paid employee to be a notary.
This employee either quits or is laid off.

What a company need to do is require an employee who is in "management" to become a notary.

The only problem with this scenario is the person in "management" has no interest in being the notary for the company and that is why least paid employee is given the position.

My son was over today and he said a company he worked for 2 years called him again after, no calls for a year, because the notary at the company was laid off.
Oh well she was one of my students but no one really wants to get notary jobs because somone has lost their job.

But, that is the way business works.

Reply by BobtheElder on 12/13/12 10:08pm
Msg #446484

I get two or three calls from these companies every week and I NEVER walk out the door for less than $100 - still they try.... " but its only..." or "we have others that'll do it..." and I tell 'em to call them instead of me. I know there are fewer loan signers in my area now than a couple years ago so maybe the market will eventually rid us of such annoyances.

Reply by sueharke on 12/13/12 11:45pm
Msg #446491

I got a call from a Title Company today at 10:30 am for a 11:30 signing. The company offered $60.00. When I asked for $XXX, she said they paid $60 because there was no printing of documents. I declined the assignment.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 12/14/12 12:54am
Msg #446496

When I'm told there's no printing involved, i tell them I charge per signature according the state fee allowances.... and I remind them that if they have 15 notarizations I am well within my rights, by state law, to charge $150 alone just for the notarizations. OH, sure, I can charge less if I want... but I don't have to. And I certainly can also charge travel fees and other fees on top of that, especially if the expect me to walk borrowers through a package.

Reply by bagger on 12/14/12 8:51am
Msg #446510

In Illinois, that would net me around $5- $10. n/m

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/14/12 12:52am
Msg #446495

Verrry interesting post, Joan ... however

... <<I asked her why she worked for them at that $65 fee and she said they give her 5-6 per day and she doesn't drive much more than 5-10 miles.>>

I'm a dunderhead when it comes to math/statistics but even I can guesstimate that, assuming your student was talking about 5-10 miles one way, one could draw a circle at five miles and then 10 miles and probably with the help of some housing data, come up with a rough estimate of how many houses are in that radius, then divide that by the percentage of homeowners who get refis and how often and the percentage of homes bought/sold and get a pretty good idea that pretty soon, your student is going to run out of jobs. I can't imagine an area in the United States where your student could keep going for 5-6 a day for any serious length of time. And even less by half if your student meant 5-10 miles round trip. I think what she said is a bunch of big tiime hooey. Like Marian said, there's no such thing as volume in this business. It's just not possible.

They're just poor business people who have found some sort of niche and have decided it works for them.

Reply by linda/ca on 12/14/12 3:41am
Msg #446503

Re: Verrry interesting post, Joan ... however

C'mon GoldGirl, you know that Joan is doing what she always do. Sneaking in her post that Calif. does not have enough notaries (sounding like the XXX) so she can plug her classes and get more students for her to send to NotRot for all the answers to their notary questions and how to get more work. It was not suppose to make sense; just read between the lines.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 12/14/12 10:35pm
Msg #446598

Both the companies and the students tell me the same thing

I don't know why both sides would lie about it. I'm not out there promoting these companies I am just telling you what over a 8 year teaching career I have heard.

I know back in the day of subprime loans I often did 4-5 a day if the money and time frame worked for me.
I do this 24/7 and I still might start at 7 am and finish at 9 pm.

Reply by Frank/NC on 12/14/12 9:08am
Msg #446513

Joan, you should see how many lowball notaries we have here. I've met some of them as well as reclosed on signings they did but made mistakes. I maintain my prices and still am loaded with work as well as turn down many because I'm too busy.
One of the major differences, in my opinion, is that most of us on this forum, have done an awful lot of work studying every aspect of our job and learning all we could about the docs we have borrowers sign. Although we don't give legal advice, we can intelligently interpret the specific docs for borrowers and make a good presentation to people. It's much easier when borrowers can have the confidence that the notary knows wht he/she is doing and can explain items to them.

Reply by Nixie/Ca on 12/14/12 4:00pm
Msg #446553

This is interesting, I took Joan's class(very good!) and I wasn't sure what her opinion was on these low ball fees. I have been going back and forth on whether or not I should accept these for experience. I am new and need and want the experience, but I don't think I will be taking those jobs after all. Signing up with the Agencys seems the best course. Thanks for your take Joan!

Reply by jba/fl on 12/14/12 4:12pm
Msg #446554

What agencies do you deem the best course? n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/14/12 8:13pm
Msg #446589

linda/ca....you just opened the door

<<<C'mon GoldGirl, you know that Joan is doing what she always do. Sneaking in her post that Calif. does not have enough notaries (sounding like the XXX) so she can plug her classes and get more students for her to send to NotRot for all the answers to their notary questions and how to get more work. It was not suppose to make sense; just read between the lines.>>>

I doubt that since the first sentence of Joan's post is: " I was teaching notary classes in both Anaheim and Pasadena......"

I was Joan's student in 2007.....she's an excellent instructor. She's very thorough, shared her experiences both as a new and an experienced notary and loan signer, was engaging and had a great sense of humor. I planned to take her class for the refresher course but she wasn't teaching when/where I signed up. Anyone in the Inland Empire, who needs to renew or become a notary for the first time and **prefers a classroom environment** should contact Joan via her profile. I highly recommend taking her live class. It's an investment WELL SPENT!!