Posted by Ernie on 12/6/12 3:20pm
Msg #445732

Closing Instructions

We are getting way too many "closing instructions" with the documents that we print. Can't anything be done about that?
At times, my package has over 160 pages and 60 of the pages are "junk"....closing instructions, 4 copies that go with the W-9; two copies of this form or that, or 3 or 4 copies of the Truth in Lending, etc.
Title companies get upset and stop using a notary/signing agent if we don't print all the closing instructions.
Would like to hear from other Notary/Signing Agents.....

Reply by Donna McDaniel on 12/6/12 3:43pm
Msg #445736

<Title companies get upset and stop using a notary/signing agent if we don't print all the closing instructions>

There's your answer. Sounds like Bank of America. Start charging more for oversize packages.

Reply by Treasure Valley Notary - Tina on 12/6/12 3:50pm
Msg #445738

Hi Ernie,

As a signing agent I am an independent contractor. I choose how I run my business. What my policies are, my fees, my rates, etc. BUT when I accept an assignment I DO NOT choose what needs to be executed at a signing table. IF the lender and/or title want docs signed, they get docs signed. I don't care if there are 10 duplicates of each item. I execute the signing the way they want it to be done - signatures, dates, initials. It is not at my discretion to decide / pick and choose what gets signed and what does not. This is why I have to set my prices accordingly. I am not the cheapest out there, but I know that I am good at what I do. I have high standards for customer service. This has kept me in business for almost 9 years now.

If you don't feel you are being paid enough for these kind of signings, then raise your base fee. Or raise your edoc fee. I feel that you need to raise your fees so that you don't feel like you are being "taken advantage of." 2013 is upon us in a few more weeks. After the new year maybe it would be a good time to rethink just what your business plan needs to be. Do you have it in writing? Most people don't. Set yourself apart, if you haven't already, and really think about what your fees are (which means you also have to know what your monthly expenses are too). Then adjust accordingly so that it doesn't matter if there are 60 pages of "junk" documents.

I believe in fighting my battles, but I am very careful which battles I fight. This is not one of them. Good luck to you!

Reply by Yoli/CA on 12/6/12 4:22pm
Msg #445741

Sound advise, Tina.

My screening process when I get a signing request, I ask:

1. location - to determine driving distance
2. are docs available; if so, how many pages; if no, who's the lender
3. if docs are not available, what's the ETA
4. fax/scanbacks
5. trust or POA involved
6. number of signers

The above may require a fee adjustment. There usually are other questions. But, the list above usually covers possible fee increases. When I give a quote, I make sure to say "my base fee is $XXX and includes up to 130 total pages." The above are extras and not included in base fee.

We each run our business as we see fit and whatever works for us. Sometimes, we learn from others and incorporate some of their ideas into our plan. This forum has been most helpful to me in this regard.

Reply by Ronnie_WA on 12/6/12 4:38pm
Msg #445743

I'm a signing agent. If the borrower doesn't have to sign them or sign receipt of them, I don't print them. Those are instructions to the escrow officer. This doesn't apply to all types of forms though. As a former escrow officer, I know what I must print. My job is to get the loan signed. Some lenders are an exception to this. BofA is not one of them. I do print a certain portion for my own purposes so that I can easily identify an escrow error and handle it at the table. I also print the outstanding conditions for myself and the borrower. I never have issues as the in-house escrow officers don't present those to the borrowers either as they are for their personal use. Some lenders, such as GMAC, do require the borrowers' receipt. If it is required, and you miss it, big mistake ... just be meticulous.

Reply by Donna McDaniel on 12/6/12 5:06pm
Msg #445747

<If the borrower doesn't have to sign them or sign receipt of them, I don't print them.>

I understand that you are a former EO, but as an NSA, it is not for us to decide what to print and what not to print, IMO. Some may even consider that UPL.

Reply by Jack/AL on 12/6/12 5:50pm
Msg #445750

Just for grins, I've checked on the number of pages of closing instuctions and related stuff from lender to title company, for the past month. Of course, some packages have very few of those, since the notary public and borrowers do nothing with them, and they are not really for the borrowers' information or use. I am not referring to actual documents for the borrowers' signatures or their information. It seems odd that the title company would send us many pages of such (often 20 to 40 pages), only to have us print them and send them to the title company and give a copy to the borrowers. Most packages from some of the big companies, with whom many of us are familiar, usually have 100 to 130 pages total. Per my calculations during November, those packages usually had from 30% to 40% of the total pages devoted to what I'll say seems useless for us to print and ship to the title companies. Maybe I'm missing something. Perhaps there is good reason for the title company to send me 30 to 40 pages of its instructions from the lender, only for me to print them and ship to the title company, and of course, give a copy to the borrowers......

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 12/6/12 5:59pm
Msg #445751

It is easier and quicker for the title company to send you the entire pdf, then having to pick and choose which pages to scan or cut from a file, just to make your life easier. It saves them from having to print the instructions to refer to later, because they have it all there, with the signed docs. So why would you even expect them to do any different? I sure wouldn't.

Reply by Ronnie_WA on 12/6/12 6:41pm
Msg #445752

I haven't had an escrow officer complain about me doing exactly what they do. It is an UPL if one amends docs, draws docs, participates in the completion of them in any manner, or selects the notarial act to perform if they don't carry an LPO. You've got to run your business as you see fit. Have a good month.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 12/6/12 6:47pm
Msg #445754

I agree with you Donna. n/m

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/6/12 10:00pm
Msg #445763

Hmmm....

... if it's possible UPL for an NSA to decide what to print and what not to print, what/where is the law(s) that does decide that?

Just curious.....

Reply by Donna McDaniel on 12/7/12 6:16am
Msg #445776

Re: Hmmm....

I'm not a lawyer so I can't I cannot quote any specific law to you and since this is not a subject regarding notarization, I don't have to.

I said some may consider this UPL. Those are the one's who are paying me. Not for me to decide.

JMO

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 12/6/12 6:46pm
Msg #445753

I am glad that works for you.

It does not work for me.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/6/12 8:31pm
Msg #445755

<<< As a former escrow officer, I know what I must print.>>>

Real property laws/rules are different for each state. I seriously doubt you know ALL laws for ALL 50 states. Therefore, it would be in your best interest to do the following: <<<My job is to get the loan signed.>>>

Reply by Clem/CA on 12/6/12 11:29pm
Msg #445772

GET BUSY!

So you take the time to look at all the docs before you print?....what a luxury. I hit the print button for printer # 1 then again For printer#2. Too busy to go through all the docs first. I guess I don't see the advantage of taking the time to weed out a bucks worth of docs for 5 bucks worth of time.

Reply by MW/VA on 12/6/12 9:13pm
Msg #445757

I followed the "it's not my decision what to print/not

print" mantra for a long time. I recently amended that, and am not printing 28-30 pages of Closing Instructions & Supplemental Closing Instructions. Those are for the tc, not for the borrower in the first place. I have one client who sends me a link because files get messed up if they send them in a pdf. They advised me not to print the closing instructions, only the loan docs. IMO that's as it should be. If I get any complaints about it, I'll let you know, but I haven't heard anything negative yet. ;-)

Reply by MistarellaFL on 12/6/12 10:25pm
Msg #445765

Absolutely right, Marilyn

And, it doesn't hurt to ask the hiring party, either.
When I get one of those packages, I always email the party and ask whether I need to print out closing instructions.
Most times I get a no, don't bother, but sometimes I get a yes, print them, too.

Reply by ArtG/KS on 12/7/12 7:45am
Msg #445778

Re: Absolutely right, Marilyn

As a NSA and real estate agent, Ive closed a few in title company offices over the years. And purchase money closings with buyer/borrower and seller at the table. That said, I have offered to help condense closing instruction to the notary to several companies and have had only one take me up on that. I also dont touch the instructions from lender to title company. Thats it. No need to make a mountain from a mole hill on this one.

Reply by ananotary on 12/7/12 9:30am
Msg #445785

I often refer to the closing instructions for details of the

Signing for trustee signings, POA, etc. Most SS's will give pages and pages of instructions, however, when I am working directly with title they assume that I know what I'm doing and will have the package executed correctly. That is when I refer to the closing instructions. If my question is not answered there, I contact the hiring party. Title/ escrow are just as busy as we are, if not more. I try not to bother them with anything other than a fully executed package unless absolutly necessary.

Reply by jnew on 12/7/12 12:15pm
Msg #445794

Re: I often refer to the closing instructions for details of the

Picking and choosing what to print is to me a waste of time. I print my packages in full, as sent, on two networked printers simultaneously, one for the signing and one for the customer. Sign it and send it. Printing costs are nothing. Look at your income statement and see what you are charging for edoc fees and subtract your paper and machine costs. Mine are not even close.

Reply by Lee/AR on 12/7/12 4:18pm
Msg #445823

mmmm....No, printing costs are NOT nothing... n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/7/12 5:50pm
Msg #445831

I think what Jim is saying is if you're charging

an adequate fee, the few extra pages of instructions that have to be printed are "nothing" in comparison. You waste far more time piece-mealing the package than just printing everything out from the getgo - the fee charged should, after all, include the fee for printing two complete sets of docs.

JMO

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/7/12 5:52pm
Msg #445832

To add - that doesn't include a color copy of the appraisal. n/m