Posted by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/11/12 7:22pm
Msg #446233

It's not easy being a notay

I suspect there are about 10,000 CA notaries who would have no problem getting this loan signed, but here I sit, following the rule book. Boink!

Guy's ID recently expired and was issued more than 5 years ago. No passport. He is a state worker, but that ID does not have all the required elements. He goes to DMV to renew, gets the temporary license which does not have all the requirement elements either (no photo). He tells me the mgr at DMV told him absolutely, the temporary can be used by notaries as an ID, no prob! I don't doubt Mr. DMV Doofus told him that, but the interesting thing is it says right on the temporary: "This license is issued as a license to drive a motor vehicle. It does not establish eligibility for employment, voter registation or public benefits."

In other words, you can't use it as identification for any number of important functions, but it's OK for the average notary (according to DMV.)

Oh, and don't even suggest CIWs.

So how many borrowers/lenders are going to sit around for 2-3 weeks waiting for the DL to show up in the mail? We'll see.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/11/12 7:24pm
Msg #446234

... or even a notary! n/m

Reply by rolomia on 12/11/12 10:20pm
Msg #446253

During the confim. call, I mention to the BO's that they must show non-expired photo ID or passport. btw...I still get a print & trip fee if the signing doesn't happen due to errors by the BO. In fact, most of the time, TC's/SS's I work for offer to pay my full fee in those instances. However, I believe it to be a matter of ethics not to accept said full fees in such cases.

That's prob. one reason many companies call me more often that they do other NSA's who would demand said full fee, irregardless. If another NSA wants to risk their commission by accepting expired or non-photo ID without two credible, identifying witnesses, that's just more signing orders for the rest of us.

Reply by droman_IL on 12/12/12 1:03pm
Msg #446313

I've called in advance and informed borrowers of non-expired id requirement as well. Apparently, on TC told customer she could use her expired ID (five years expired) with the traffic violation ticket she received (no bond card, so they took the license.) Needles to say, she had to reschedule the signing. If I don't spend more than 15 minutes at a signing, I request print/trip fee. Any longer than 15 minutes, full fee is expected.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 12/12/12 7:16am
Msg #446276

I'm sure you are familiar with your state notary manual and know whether the temporary license is satisfactory ID for notarizations. But I notice that "employment [or] voter registation" require more than just legal presence in the US; they require either citizenship or a type of visa that allows for work. Even the permanent driver's license doesn't establish that.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/12/12 11:45am
Msg #446306

Good points, VT

Didn't think of either of those things! Actually, I don't know who can get a DL in CA... I suspect they give them to nonresidents, foreigners, etc. who have some other form of ID.

Yes, in CA, the deal is all IDs must be gov't issued and contain a signature, some sort of identifying number, personal description and a photo. The temp DL doesn't normally have a photo. Additionally, the SOS has ruled that you can't combine IDs to make a whole. In other words, 3 of the 4 requirements are on the temp and are exactly what's on his DL, but I can't take the two and use the photo from the DL to complete the identification. Boo.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 12/12/12 1:26pm
Msg #446322

Re: It's not easy being a notary

I had one the other day with an interim license which met all requirements -- including photo. Had read about it here, just hadn't seen one until now.

You'd think DMV being a State agency, all offices would do same thing, huh?

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/12/12 1:55pm
Msg #446325

Re: It's not easy being a notary

Yes, I saw one recently with the photo, too. I thought I was seeing things for a minute! So I used it. I was hoping this guy's temp would also have a photo, but no luck. Don't know what the deal is ...

Reply by Gregory/CA on 12/12/12 7:18pm
Msg #446347

Here's a Question. Driver's license expired, but still

issued within the last five (5) years. In California it is acceptable for us to accept as being valid. Now, let's say Title states the license must be unexpired. Do you notarize based on state law with the expired license yet still valid as it's issued within the last five (5) years or not sign at all since there is no other identification nor CWs available?

Luckily all my borrowers IDs have not expired, but this has crossed my mind when title indicated the ID must be unexpired.

I know, I know. Call Title and let them decide, which I will when I see this request again, but just wanted your two cents.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 12/12/12 7:59pm
Msg #446352

Re: Here's a Question. Driver's license expired, but still

My view is that the request for a notarization comes from the party that hired me, directly or indirectly. Since title is either my client or my client's client, they issue my instructions. If they give me a conditional request for a notarization, telling be to ask for an acknowledgement but only if the signer has unexpired ID, then if the unexpired ID condition isn't satisfied, then I have no request before me to perform a notarization. If the borrower asked me to notarize anyway, I would decline because the piece of paper belongs to the title company (they bought it on credit which I granted) and I don't have title's permission to write on it if the ID doesn't meet their requirements.

Reply by HisHughness on 12/12/12 8:44pm
Msg #446356

Re: Here's a Question. Driver's license expired, but still

State law establishes what ID you CAN accept.

The hiring party establishes what ID you WILL accept within the limitations of state law.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/12/12 9:24pm
Msg #446362

Re: Here's a Question. Driver's license expired, but still

<<< Now, let's say Title states the license must be unexpired. Do you notarize based on state law with the expired license yet still valid as it's issued within the last five (5) years or not sign at all since there is no other identification nor CWs available?.....I know, I know. Call Title and let them decide>>>

I disagree that you call title and let them decide. Title has complete control/domain over the paperwork - generally speaking but has NO say about the notarizations since they are the notary's domain and the notary's domain alone. The state governing entity determines what is/is not acceptable for notarization purposes, not the TC.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/12/12 10:51pm
Msg #446366

Not really...

If a lender or TC says you can't use an expired DL, then you can't use an expired DL even if it was issued within the past 5 years. You'd just tell the borrower: too bad, no sign today. But before you do that, you'd call the hiring agency, which will probably, no not probably, will definitely tell you to go ahead and sign and forget their silly rule.

The lender/TC is NOT telling you as a notary what you can or cannot accept for ID; they can't do that. But they can say it's not acceptable to them. They can't tell you how to be a notary, but they can tell you how they want the loan done. If it's not outside the bounds of state law, it's not your call. If the TC doesn't want any of its forms notarized based on a signature from a person with an expired ID, then no forms are signed or notarized, IMO.

P.S. CWs are also not appropriate in this case. The borrower has ID, it's just not acceptable to the lender/TC. Use of CWs is also your decision... however, if the lender/TC/SS say no to CWs, then it's no longer your decision. Just as it's not their decision to use CWs if you as the notary deem it inappropriate.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/13/12 4:25am
Msg #446372

Re: Not really...

I agree, Goldgirl. We're talking about two different sets of requirements. When we're only wearing our notary hat, we determine what is or is not acceptable. However, when we're doing a loan signing, we not only must meet state requirements to notarize as needed, but we must also comply with lender and tc requirements when it comes to executing the loan docs. After all, the notarizations are only a small part of what we have to do to fully complete a signing.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/13/12 8:36pm
Msg #446472

Re: Not really...

<<<We're talking about two different sets of requirements.>>>

And I addressed this in my post - i.e. Docs are the TC's domain and the notarizations are the NSA's domain.

<<<..... When we're only wearing our notary hat, we determine what is or is not acceptable. However, when we're doing a loan signing, we not only must meet state requirements to notarize as needed, but we must also comply with lender and tc requirements when it comes to executing the loan docs.>>>

See above comment.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/13/12 8:31pm
Msg #446470

Re: Not really...

<<<If a lender or TC says you can't use an expired DL, then you can't use an expired DL even if it was issued within the past 5 years. You'd just tell the borrower: too bad, no sign today....but they can tell you how they want the loan done.>>>


Uh, didn't I say that in my post?: "Title has complete control/domain over the paperwork - generally speaking...."

<<<If the TC doesn't want any of its forms notarized based on a signature from a person with an expired ID, then no forms are signed or notarized,....>>>

They can *not* have the forms signed...thus UNsigned docs cannot be notarized anyway...so any argument beyond that is moot.