Posted by Yoli/CA on 12/6/12 1:19pm
Msg #445718

No notary for a property sale?

I was at an e-sign yesterday with a very nice couple. In conversation, they commented they had sold a property in Southern California a few years ago (believe they said ~7 yrs ago). It was all done on computer. One of their sons was on title and lived in Chicago at that time. Son does not have POA for parents. He signed in Chicago with a notary. They signed in Northern California all via computer in their home. Never saw, visited or talked to a notary.

Didn't sound right to me. Wouldn't they need a notary for the Grant Deed, at least? Enlighten me, please.

Reply by Shan/CA on 12/6/12 1:38pm
Msg #445720

Customer Alert - California Notaries Public Cannot Perform Notarial Services Online: Online webcam notarizations are invalid and illegal activities for California notaries public.


This came from the California Secretary of State's page, then click notary and it is the third link down. Hope this is helpful, as I am new!

Reply by Yoli/CA on 12/6/12 1:41pm
Msg #445722

Thanks, Shan. Already aware of this. That's why my inquiry.

BTW, they never saw a notary -- not in person, not on webcam, not on Skype, etc.

Reply by Shan/CA on 12/6/12 1:51pm
Msg #445723

Ok, I reread your message. I'm learning as I go along. That will be interesting to know!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/6/12 1:57pm
Msg #445724

What happened with original docs? Did signers send

them in to title? If so, title probably notarized when they got the signed originals back.

Just a thought.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 12/6/12 2:24pm
Msg #445728

Nothing ever wet-signed. All via computer. n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/6/12 3:49pm
Msg #445737

I agree, Yoli. (And you don't need anyone to "enlighten" you! ) As I'm sure you know, if they were on title, the only way they could transfer ownership is via a notarized Deed of some sort that would have to be recorded.

I didn't realize anyone even doing e-signings ~7 yrs ago. Smells fishy to me. Either that, or their memory is less than perfect. You never know. If, after they signed via computer, someone came by at a later time to get their signatures notarized on a Grant Deed, it would have been quick and if it was that long ago, they may have simply forgotten, especially if they felt they were leaving this transaction to their son to handle. If not, the only other possibility I can think of is that someone forged their signature, which would have also required either an incompetent notary or a crooked one. I'd be scratching my head over this one, too. My guess is that someone at the tc "handled" the "notary" for the parents back in the office and saved themselves the fee for sending a notary in NoCal out to the parents to do it right.

Reply by Pro Mobile Notary on 12/6/12 3:58pm
Msg #445739

It could be a contract for sale where title does not change hands until the installment payments are completed.

It could be a cash transaction without loan docs and they do not remember signing over the deed.

It is not uncommon for real estate agents to do their sale contracts and disclosures over the computer and fax machine.

At the end of the day it is more likely the people do not recall what really happened 7 years ago.

How old were they Yoli?

Reply by Yoli/CA on 12/6/12 4:32pm
Msg #445742

They seemed to be intellligent, well-grounded individuals with good recall. At least that's the way it appeared during our conversation. They are 64 and 72, both of them retired professionals.

One of his concerns was that they might owe back property taxes. It was suggested they contact county recorder/assessor to determine status and get copy of transfer docs.

Hopefully, it's just a memory lapse.

Reply by MW/VA on 12/6/12 9:17pm
Msg #445759

Right now I can't think of the name of the platform, but

there is one that RE agents use all the time for transactions by computer.

Reply by GF_CA on 12/6/12 11:09pm
Msg #445770

Re: Right now I can't think of the name of the platform, but

Docusign ..but they still need to sign the grant deed with the notary. They probably forgot about it.

Reply by ArtG/KS on 12/7/12 7:53am
Msg #445781

e-signs

That grand deed may have been done later by someone else without anyone at the e-sign knowing about that. I know, Ive done such follow ups. And it was about 7 years ago when I did my first e-sign too. And for loan docs of any kind that has notarial certificates, its not the SOS that decides what has to be notarized or not. For example: In KS, they became an auto title holding state a few years ago and it was the department of motor vehicles that decided to stop title notarizations, not the SOS. If they can convince a register of deeds to accept signatures without a notarization, thats out of any SOS's jurisdiction.