Posted by notarybug/ca on 2/14/12 6:07am
Msg #411677

Any exper Agents willing to have a shadow apprentice??

I'm in Los Angeles and I am a month new. I completed both the Notary and Loan Signing courses and I just need some hands on before I handle Loan Docs on my own.

No pay of course, the training and/or experience is more valuable for now!!


Thanks,
Judy

Reply by mwm143 on 2/14/12 8:18am
Msg #411681

Will you be willing to train your competition in 2 yrs? n/m

Reply by Barb25 on 2/14/12 8:47am
Msg #411684

Re: Will you be willing to train your competition in 2 yrs?

Yes

Reply by HisHughness on 2/14/12 8:51am
Msg #411685

Re: Will you be willing to train your competition in 2 yrs?

***Yes***

Obviously not a problem for you, Barb. With that approach, you won't still be in business two years from now for it to make any difference -- except to the competition you have set up to destroy you.

Reply by Barb25 on 2/14/12 9:24am
Msg #411690

Okay, let me rephrase.

Yes. I would. No not a problem for me. I had help in the beginning ... over a decade ago. I should have realized that would bring the wrath of someone. I don't think that giving a hand to someone else will bring me down. I don't feel that my worth is lessened if they get better. That's my opinion. But everyone should do what they think is right. That's all. It might even keep this industry going on a more professional level and then again maybe not. If I have learned one thing in life, it is how little I have learned. lol

Reply by LindaP/OH on 2/14/12 9:48am
Msg #411691

Re: Okay, let me rephrase.

Thank you for not responding inkind--CLASSY response!!

Reply by jba/fl on 2/14/12 9:50am
Msg #411693

{Smile} I personally think that is great.

My competition is my greatest referral source. I have never been afraid of competition....it is healthy.

On one hand, there is very little business. On the other there are a lot of companies that don't know of me and vice versa, but they do know my competition.

It's funny - I talk to local notaries and we appear to all be busy at the same times, but we are not working for the same companies. My training never included giving my list, but where to seek for their own.

Reply by HisHughness on 2/14/12 12:44pm
Msg #411722

Re: Okay, let me slice it for you

16-ounce pie @ 8 slices = 2 ounces per slice.
16-ounce pie @ 9 slices = 1.78 ounces per slice.

Unless a new NP proposes to increase the size of the pie through some alchemy -- and that does happen in some professions -- I prefer a full helping of dessert.

Adding to the problem of the diminished per capita income from new wannabee signing agents is that the pie itself is no longer as nourishing as it once was. What was in times past a flaky, buttery crust has become a dry and tasteless shadow of its former self, and the filling has only a fraction of the calories it once offered and almost none of the flavor.

I think it's best to recognize that there iis a vast difference betwen cooperating with a competitor already in place -- which all of us have -- and new competition I helped put there. But hey! Barb, you construct your own business model. And on your way to the second job you eventually will have to take, blow a kiss to the NPs you trained to take <your> business and to those posters on this forum who so blithely urge others to undermine their own financial futures.

Reply by Barb25 on 2/14/12 1:05pm
Msg #411724

Why are you so angry at me? n/m

Reply by HisHughness on 2/14/12 1:39pm
Msg #411729

Re: Why are you so angry at me?

Barb, I haven't been angry at a beautiful woman since my ex-wives threw a coming-out party for my last (latest?) ex upon our divorce. And then I was angry only because I wasn't invited.

Reply by Barb25 on 2/14/12 1:48pm
Msg #411733

Re: Why are you so angry at me?

Lol. You are something else. And I mean that in only the best of ways. LOL again.

Reply by desktopfull on 2/14/12 11:01am
Msg #411697

Re: Will you be willing to train your competition in 2 yrs?

Taking an extra person not involved with the loan, seeing the docs etc. violates the confidentiality of the borrowers info (Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act), without permission from hiring entity.

Reply by jba/fl on 2/14/12 11:09am
Msg #411700

Re: Will you be willing to train your competition in 2 yrs?

There are ways to train without taking someone to the signing or giving them actual loan docs.

Reply by desktopfull on 2/14/12 11:15am
Msg #411703

Re: Will you be willing to train your competition in 2 yrs?

Forgive me for misunderstanding, generally when someone is shadowing you they are tagging along with you watching what you're doing. That usually means they are viewing confidential material.

Reply by jba/fl on 2/14/12 11:24am
Msg #411705

Re: Will you be willing to train your competition in 2 yrs?

Neither Barb nor I mentioned shadowing. The OP did, but I wasn't responding to that. Sorry, I should have been more plain. I was really only speaking of methods that do not compromise security of docs or the confidentiality, which is why I said there are other methods.

Reply by desktopfull on 2/14/12 12:46pm
Msg #411723

Re: Will you be willing to train your competition in 2 yrs?

If you will check out the OP "Any exper Agents willing to have a shadow apprentice??" that is what this thread is about and Barb answered: "Yes." That is why I mentioned the confidentiality breach. I'm through here.

Reply by A S Johnson on 2/14/12 9:55am
Msg #411695

I'll defend hugh.
You indicated you had been in this business "10 years ago", why do you need training?
This bussiness has changed but your job has not.
10 years ago, I was in this business then, you might have gotten someone to help you, BUT the bussiness now, with an extreme number of Notaries and siging agents, in California and to the point LA, do you think someone will step forward?

Reply by desktopfull on 2/14/12 11:03am
Msg #411698

The OP said they were new with one month experience. Barb25 said she had 10 yrs. experience.

Reply by jnew on 2/14/12 11:11am
Msg #411701

Econ 101. If the available supply of servicers increases and the relative demand for the product remains constant, the price decreases. The price in this case is the fee charged by NSAs. To quote Michael Corleone: "It's not personal, its strictly business."

Reply by Jillian Hinrichs on 2/14/12 12:15pm
Msg #411714

Take the 2 courses offered by Notary2Pro.com

I got NNA certified and background-screened and still didn't know how to do an actual signing. This site explains how to do a professional signing and the owner, Carol Ray, is always available to help her students out.

If you shadow someone, they may not be doing it right, just doing it in a way that they have gotten away with doing because the docs get returned with all signatures, initials, etc. completed properly.

Carol teaches you how to go thru the HUD1, etc., so that the borrower understands the loan they are getting and what the costs for the loan were. She also stresses not to take on lowball assignments, which only ends up hurting us all.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/14/12 2:03pm
Msg #411735

I agree with Jillian

IMO, this whole area goes way beyond training/helping your future competition; it's a matter of liability and responsibility. I got hammered on NR once as being mean and ugly by all the "I'll help any newbie who asks cos I'm such a nice, sweet, dripping honey NSA and am so all-knowing and am bursting at the seams to prove it, and you (me) are such a witch cos you won't help" crowd, but here goes again: Jillian's point about imperfect NSAs passing on questionable practices is an excellent one. As well as the confidentiality issue. Even scarier is the possibility of a newbie misinterpreting something you said or did (usually on the fly, because that's the nature of "shadowing") and then this coming back to bite you. Similar case in point: I met a notary/legal aide who wanted to get involved in GNW. I was happy to refer to her all my "Sunday notary" calls. She then proceded to screw everything up and then to get herself out of hot water give the signers my phone number, who then screamed at me, like everything was my fault when I had no idea who they were or what was going on. One time she could have got me in real trouble with the SOS if the caller had reported "us." (She took a prison job; the inmate's relatives traveled far to meet her; she got scared, called the XYZ association who told her, she said, it was against the law to notarize for inmates and on and on). I didn't realize at first that she was a complete incompetent - and all you helpful, lend-a-hand NSAs don't know who you're dealing with either. The scary thing about this is that I never even gave her one drop of advice or any suggestions on how to be a notary or helped her in any way beyond steering GNW business to her. It could have been far worse if she had said I told her to do this-or-that because she was clearly inclined to misinterpret (even XYZ would not have told her it was illegal to notarize inmate signatures - I hope) and screw things up even more. Yikes! Leave all this to the professionals, like Jillian said, unless you're ready to deal with something coming back to haunt you from someone you didn't really ever know, someone who may entangle you in their improper actions. I know we all are inclined as professionals to help out a newbie or we may feel personally charitable toward them. And once you've thought about the downside, you could still help but in a manner that benefits everybody. Just a suggestion.

Reply by JanelWI on 2/14/12 1:42pm
Msg #411730

jnew,

love that answer!! so true....

Reply by Barb25 on 2/14/12 11:31am
Msg #411707

Does anybody remember the question? lol n/m

Reply by Kenny Services - Dawn on 2/14/12 1:43pm
Msg #411731

Re: Does anybody remember the question? lol

Barb25 if you were in my state, and I had permission from the borrowers for you to view the closing I would let you tag along. They are many notaries my area, I dont tell them my marketing strategy or who i work for. Its all fair game. You would not be viewing the papers, you would just be observing how I handle the closing and explain the Docs. I am more than happy to assist someone in learning.

Reply by JanelWI on 2/14/12 1:39pm
Msg #411728

Judy:

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but with the new privacy laws it would be hard to find someone who is willing to take on the risk regarding borrower non-public information in terms of having someone there watching the signing to gain experience. I know that if I chose to do that most closing companies request that we do not bring others for privacy and professional reasons and it would also be up to the borrowers if they feel comfortable in allowing someone to watch their loan signing process. Protection of borrower information is crucial.

Honestly Judy, if you have done your homework, the best experience is hands on experience to develop your own style and mode of operation. Don't be scared. What is the point of taking the courses if you are not willing to put it into practice? You have to be confident about what you have learned and just get out there and do it! :-) Even now after all these years I never go to a closing without one simple rule. Conduct the closing as you would want someone to conduct it for you if you were refinancing. Set a high standard and make that your commitment to serving your eventual clients and their borrowers. As you probably already know a large part of this business is good client and customer service. What would you expect if someone came to your door to do a loan closing?

You can't do this effectively without a plan Judy. What is your plan? Does your plan include proper business, customer and client service standards? Have you considered all the variables? For those of us that have done this awhile we know it is beyond just "point and sign" it always has been and we get a bit offended when companies make it sound as if it just take minutes and you will make a six figure income after your first year. That is bull with a loud and resounding S$!%........well you get the point! Don't fall for that crap. Minimum effort and maximum reward does not work in this business. It takes time to build trust and a good client base. The only answer to that is to do the work. In business, there are also no guarantees of success either. Did you plan for that? Why do you think most business ventures fail within the first 2-5 years?

Another great piece of advice I can give is to read the pearls of wisdom on this forum. It will give you great insight as to how to conduct yourself and how to start in this business. Be prepared for some long days and nights, red eye at the computer and behind the wheel....and also have more than one iron in the fire. Don't put all your eggs in just this basket because you will be waiting 30, 45 and sometimes 60 or 90 days to get paid. Make sure you have a plan for effective payment collection techniques also.

I guess my point is.....you have to decide what this business will be for you. You get out what you put in. You need a business plan even if this is just a part time gig. Period.

I know personally, beyond "training the competition" in this economic climate I would not want to take on the risk of bringing someone to the closing. I am very protective of borrower information and that would not work for me. JMHO on this matter.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 2/14/12 2:10pm
Msg #411737

And even if you would shadow someone at a signing, you

STILL will have a 1st time alone. Even sitting watching someone is not the same as actually doing it yourself. We ALL have had a 1st and most of us did something wrong the first couple times and had to go back out. It's part of the learning (I'll never do that again) process. When I first started I did not take a course of any kind. I spent a day with someone who went over the docs with me frontwards, backwards and sideways. Most pkgs are basically the same. Then he sent me home with a pkg (with all personal info blocked) and I studied them hard. The first couple , ok the first 25 or so, I would print those docs out and sit for what seemed forever going over them. Each one gets easier and easier. This is not rocket science, it just takes a little time to learn the docs. Relax, breathe.

Reply by notarybug/ca on 2/14/12 3:08pm
Msg #411738

Thank you so much for taking the time to type all that!! :-)
I agree, I do need to just do it. I know once I become familiar with the Loan Documents itself I will feel more at ease knowing which needs my Notarization. And I totally understand about "not being too careful" with borrower's Loan Docs & personal information.

Your right, a plan should be the first step. I'll start there. And yes, no successful business comes without hard work. Thanks again for responding!! I appreciate it!!

*Can I just ask why there seems to be so much bickering on these posts?? I'm not posting anything to cause disturbance or to intentionally sound ignorant where one feels the need to be less than civil in their response to me. Unless you know my personality please don't assume I'm asking a silly/dumb question.**

Reply by rengel/CA on 2/14/12 3:25pm
Msg #411739

notarybug, go to the first post of this site and read all the way to the present. You will notice that this question is asked, at a MINIMUM, at least once a month if not once a week.

It gets rather tiring when the newbies come in week after week with the same questions, having jumped headlong into this arena without having the slightest idea how to start. We question why anyone would jump into a business without doing their due dilligence first. Whether it be classes, training, licensing, marketing, checking the market, etc. AND without a business plan.

The analogy best used is that you want to sopen a hamburger stand. Would you go to McDonald's and ask to "shadow" the manager of the McDonalds on your street corner? I don't think you'd get very far.

Ask yourself why you got into this business and what you are going to do for yourself to become the best notary public/signing agent in your area.

And use that orange search button, it will become your best friend on this forum.

My .02

Reply by HisHughness on 2/14/12 3:46pm
Msg #411747

****Can I just ask why there seems to be so much bickering on these posts?***

Can't speak for anyone else, but my hemorrhoids were particularly irritating today. Be grateful the psoriasis hadn't kicked in, too.

Reply by notarybug/ca on 2/14/12 5:53pm
Msg #411775

{{{ ****Can I just ask why there seems to be so much bickering on these posts?***

Can't speak for anyone else, but my hemorrhoids were particularly irritating today. Be grateful the psoriasis hadn't kicked in, too. }}}

Well no wonder, those can be such a pain in the .... well you know what I mean!! :-)

Have a good one!!

Judy

Reply by Karla/OR on 2/14/12 4:46pm
Msg #411762

"*Can I just ask why there seems to be so much bickering on these posts??"

I, too, hate the bickering and harshness. I lbelieve in the old addage, "If you don't have anything nice to say, keep it to yourself." There is a way to give advice without making one feel humiliated. It seems to be a fact of life on here with some. There area lot of notaries that refuse to post on here for that reason, and do PM (Private Mail - red button) instead. I get these sentiments repeated to me often via PM.

Hopefully you can look through it and just take the important points offered, because there REALLY IS good info on here.

I wish you success.

Reply by NJDiva on 2/14/12 5:29pm
Msg #411770

"why there seems to be so much bickering on these posts?"

This message may help you to understand.

Msg #401519

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/14/12 5:38pm
Msg #411773

Priceless....think I'm gonna start posting this on the

first of every month - Newbies Please Note and Understand - Your Monthly Reminder

Reply by Karla/OR on 2/14/12 5:47pm
Msg #411774

Re: "why there seems to be so much bickering on these posts?"

"WHEN THE NEWBS CAME"

Such a great post. But it still boils down to different personalities I guess. Most posts are very helpful. Some notaries only post in PM because of the fear of being kicked around, deserving or not. They should feel free to post without that fear. (IMO)

Reply by notarybug/ca on 2/14/12 6:00pm
Msg #411777

Re: "why there seems to be so much bickering on these posts?"

Well its nice to see there are still some with a good sense of humor!! Thanks for the link to the post!! :-)

Judy

Reply by NJDiva on 2/14/12 8:51pm
Msg #411807

"why there seems to be so much bickering on these posts?"

Please know that it's (the reactions of those posting) nothing personal to YOU.

Reply by notarybug/ca on 2/14/12 5:57pm
Msg #411776

{{{ *Can I just ask why there seems to be so much bickering on these posts??"

I, too, hate the bickering and harshness. I lbelieve in the old addage, "If you don't have anything nice to say, keep it to yourself." ...... }}}

Oh, I do look past it. I'm new, and only read a post or 2 before I could tell. But oh well, to each their own. :-P Have a good one!!

Judy

Reply by JanelWI on 2/15/12 10:20am
Msg #411846

Re: Bickering

Notarybug:

I do not choose to engage in the bickering. I say what I am going to say honestly and professionally. I know that potential clients read these posts so personally for me I try to keep it to the facts and as professional as possible at all times. That does not mean I don't engage in a humorous comment or two....we are all human after all. I hope that I did not come off as "bickering" to you. I was just relaying my experience, as long winded as it may be, and my suggestions.

The bickering for me is really not my style and it is a practice in negative energy that I would rather focus into positive energy for my life and business success. Life if full of choices and different paths to take. I choose to engage only professionally because forums and other social media can be very "life sucking" and keep you from tending to your business if not kept in balance with everything else. I am also an observer by nature. If you observe behaviors of others you can sometimes learn what to do and what not to do. Maybe that comes from the benefit of being the baby in my family:-)

Nevertheless! Use the search button often and read this forum, it is a wealth of very bright, engaging, talented and knowledgeable individuals. The bickering may be colorful, but for the most part it is the knowledge of those here that outweigh any bickering. It is also what makes this forum very valuable. It is business, not personal.

Reply by LKT/CA on 2/14/12 6:48pm
Msg #411783

notarybug, the bickering starts when.... n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 2/14/12 7:05pm
Msg #411784

I guess when you are ready? LOL n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 2/14/12 7:15pm
Msg #411787

Re: I guess when you are ready? LOL

Yep, that's exactly why I became a notary - to bicker and place "fancied obstacles" in the borrowers way so I can manufacture problems, waste my valuable time and there's.. and just make life miserable for the both of us. LOL!!!

Reply by jba/fl on 2/14/12 7:35pm
Msg #411790

I really enjoy your responses, Lisa. Bullseye almost always.

Got to say 'almost' to keep you striving!

Reply by LKT/CA on 2/14/12 7:39pm
Msg #411791

Thanks, jba/fl n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 2/14/12 7:12pm
Msg #411786

notarybug, the bickering starts when....

....a poster doesn't bother answering the original poster's question, but instead judges someone else's opinion (i.e. "With that approach, you won't still be in business two years from now for it to make any difference -- except to the competition you have set up to destroy you".).

It's one thing to ask why someone came to a certain conclusion about a particular subject. It's quite another to make flaming declarations as to what that person's choice will result in - with no clue about their life experiences, vision, mission, motivation, mentors, advisers, trials and victories regarding their choice. The thread they hijack gets 50 posts deep, and still, they never bother to directly address the OP, which is the person who is looking for answers. That's MY take on why there's bickering.

Reply by jba/fl on 2/14/12 7:32pm
Msg #411789

Excellent response. n/m

Reply by Barb25 on 2/14/12 8:11pm
Msg #411797

Re: Excellent response.

It was an excellent response. It would be best to stay on subject and more important respect the opinions of others even if you disagree (which is very hard to do). But it would be good to find out why a person feels that way. Might be good stuff we are all missing. I know I continue to find good stuff on this site.Today was insanity..A question, I answered one word "Yes", a second supposed rhetorical question, and this took on a life of its own... Crazy.

In any event, I don't think anyone needs me and my soapbox at this point. So everyone, have a good night.

Reply by HisHughness on 2/14/12 9:56pm
Msg #411813

Or the bickering starts when an NP who should know better...

...emphatically says that things are a certain way and that's the way they SHOULD be, as in ***just because I *can* doesn't mean I *should***, when in actuality all the poster is doing is either stating a long-held misconception or a personal preference as a requirement -- either of which may be misleading and/or damaging to someone seeking guidance.

Reply by linda/ca on 2/15/12 1:21am
Msg #411822

Re: Or the bickering starts when an NP who should know better...

Hugh, Desktop and all you other intelligent naysayers, you are absolutely correct! I can't think of any situation where it would make any sense to "help" "assist" "encourage" more competition in this famine. Didn't make sense when times were far better, yet it could have been somewhat understandable at the time (albeit) never good business strategy. I'm not just throwing out my opinion here folks cause guess what? I took all the business from the person who trained me!!! Let me clean this up a little bit so everyone won't start throwing eggs and bricks at me; I wasn't being a "cut throat" as it may appear; I started helping her out and she chose not to pay me, so not being the type who like to work for nothing........
I know this situation might be different, however, don't think for a moment it doesn't happen!Moreover, as I mentioned initially, it is simply not a smart thing to even consider!

Reply by Karla/OR on 2/15/12 2:11am
Msg #411824

Re: Or the bickering starts when an NP who should know better...

>>! I can't think of any situation where it would make any sense to "help" "assist" "encourage" more competition in this famine. >>

When I started in this business, I could have easily been discouraged and quit from what I was reading here on this forum. Knowing what was going on in the real estate market and the talk of "famine" was disheartening but this was something that I really wanted to venture into. I would not have made it without my certification training and you folks here on Not/Rot.

Yes, there have been some slow times since starting but I have marketed myself well enough to not let the signing agent job rule my life financially. I work part-time at two other jobs and between the three, and my husbands income, we are doing well. I do not have any desire to give up the signing job because of "famine."

So is it possible that there are people out there like me that want to dabble in this business as to supplement their income - is that so wrong?We can be informed in a nice way that the market has slowed but that they are still welcome into the community to try to make a go of it. I don't feel they should be scared away because of the fear of competition on our part.

For those that signing agent is their only income, and fear that competition will hurt them, maybe it is time to venture out and see what other things are out there in the same realm of being a notary. That's what I have done. I get more calls for signings for my other businesses than I do for signing agent mortgage jobs. AND they pay VERY well for such easy work - far easier than doing 150-175 page mortgage docs.

My two cents.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/15/12 6:55am
Msg #411828

Re: Or the bickering starts when an NP who should know better...

I got a call the other day from someone. I will call this person Androgynous Pat.

Pat wanted me to tell Pat how to get started.

Pat was quite persistent. Call after call while I was at work. When I finally answered, no thought was given to my time, or if it was a good time for me. Just got the request to get Pat on the right track.

Bottom line, I said "Can't answer you right now, send me an email."

I emailed Pat a tip on what to search on Google. Using it, Pat would have landed on all the free quality info Pat could want. But, Pat would have to read it rather than have me recite it for Pat.

Pat never even acknowledged the email. This is typical.

So, with me, it's just an annoyance with a Pat-like sense of entitlement.

Google is a very good friend.

Reply by LKT/CA on 2/16/12 12:18am
Msg #411918

Re: Or the bickering starts when an NP who should know better...

To quote Barbara: "It would be best to stay on subject and more important respect the opinions of others even if you disagree (which is very hard to do)."

In other words, start answering the OP's question and stop derailing threads by badgering others about their view. People have a right to their opinion - g/b/u, and don't need your permission to believe how they believe.

Reply by linda/ca on 2/15/12 1:39am
Msg #411823

Re: notarybug, the bickering starts when....

Hi, LKT/CA, while I agree that in many post the OP may not get their answer, however, in these post it was made crystal clear! Besides, it was a direct question she asked and if no one take her under their wings, not only did she get her answer; through all the bickering, no matter how unpleasant, she got to understand why she got no takers. Of course this is my opinion.

Reply by Barb25 on 2/15/12 7:29am
Msg #411830

If anyone still care about this...

My answer is still Yes.... I would help.

Reply by mwm143 on 2/15/12 9:17am
Msg #411843

Re: If anyone still care about this...

The question wasn't posed to you. It was posed to the original poster.

Reply by Barb25 on 2/15/12 11:27am
Msg #411858

Ouch. n/m

Reply by notarybug/ca on 2/15/12 7:51pm
Msg #411903

Re: Ouch.

My point EXACTLY Barb!! The post you replied to was unecessary in the first place. Not everybody needs to hear that member's "enlightened" matter of fact.