Posted by Cathy Procida on 2/4/12 5:09pm
Msg #410894

Bail Bonds

I only do loan signings, so I am not familiar with notarizations concerning bail bonds. A new notary has asked me what he should charge to go out late night to do an acknowledgement for a bail bondsman. Does anyone have an idea of what he should charge????

Reply by bob/IA on 2/4/12 8:58pm
Msg #410903

$1,000,000.00

Reply by Roger_OH on 2/4/12 9:25pm
Msg #410904

It saddens me...

when I read of someone who became a notary just to do loan signings, and consequently has little idea about the role, history, or traditions of the office, nor the satisfaction of providing service to the public.

A notary that has not even made the effort to know their own state fee for a simple notarization is, in my view, a sad example of what should be a proud title.

It's been a NotRot mantra for years that we are notaries first, and signing agents second. Apparently not in this case.

Reply by Buddy Young on 2/4/12 10:43pm
Msg #410908

Re: well said, Roger n/m

Reply by HisHughness on 2/4/12 10:51pm
Msg #410909

Gotta disagree with you, Roger

Because a doctor goes through medical training and then elects to specialize, it does not mean that he thinks less of the medical profession nor that the profession should think less of him. Many licensed professions specialize: Doctors, lawyers, architects, dentists, taxi drivers. I don't see that notaries are any different, nor do I understand why they should be expected to pursue work that they may not enjoy, may not find remunerative, or may not want to do just because they are from Michigan or similar haunts and like to piss off Buckeyes.

To contend that someone does not give priority to their status as a notary just because they do only loan signings is a bit over the edge. I assume that the OP, like, of course, every other poster on this board, is quite meticulous in carrying out his/her duties as a notary during closings.

Likewise, it's pushing it to say that just because someone restricts their business to a particular clientele, they are unaware of the "role, history, or traditions of the office." I think it is quite possible that a doctor can be an excellent healer without knowing that his professional forebears sometimes had to clear away the hair clippers and razors before finding the scapel to begin an appendectomy.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 2/4/12 11:07pm
Msg #410910

I agree with you Hugh

There are quite a few states where the notary cannot afford to do general notary work because the fees are too low.

Reply by jba/fl on 2/4/12 11:23pm
Msg #410911

Gotta disagree with you, Hugh

Roger was explicit in his assessment: "A notary that has not even made the effort to know their own state fee for a simple notarization is, in my view, a sad example of what should be a proud title."

The question did deal with what a simple notarization could pay.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/4/12 11:43pm
Msg #410913

Devil's advocate here: So how does that square with the

PUBLIC responsibility basis for the Notary Public?

Reply by VT_Syrup on 2/5/12 10:32am
Msg #410933

Re: Devil's advocate here: So how does that square with the

The state legislature has, at the least, the responsibility to make sure sufficient public servants are available, at the appropriate times and places, to satisfy the requirements that the state creates, and the basic needs of the people that the state is responsible for. This means enough notaries public, motor vehicle offices, building inspectors, etc. If the state finds there are enough volunteer firefighters, EMTs, and notaries getting 50¢ per certificate, there is no need for the state to arrange for livable income levels for these public servants. If the public needs are not being met, it is up to the legislature to either eliminate the requirement (for example, abolish notarial acts and auto registration) or create a structure that provides livable income.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/5/12 11:00am
Msg #410937

Re: Devil's advocate here: So how does that square with the

"The state legislature has, at the least, the responsibility to make sure sufficient public servants are available, at the appropriate times and places, to satisfy the requirements that the state creates, and the basic needs of the people that the state is responsible for"

Precisely - and I think Susan was referring to the OP's doing only loan signings and not being available to the public, as a notary PUBLIC.

She'll correct me if I misinterpreted, but I think that was her point - and if you initial statement is true, then that backs up what she said - can't be a notary PUBLIC if you're not available to the PUBLIC and you're too restrictive in the work you do.

JMHO

Reply by VT_Syrup on 2/5/12 11:21am
Msg #410945

Re: Devil's advocate here: So how does that square with the

Many other public servants with no or nominal pay/fees have a clear idea of what their signing up for when they start. Selectmen are expected to show up for nearly every select board meeting. Volunteer firefighters are expected to go to every fire if they're in town and healthy. EMTs are expected to sign up on the ambulance calendar and respond on the days they signed up for. If a state says anything at all about notaries, it usually says they should notarize for everyone who shows up at their "office" (whatever that is) during office hours (which are set either by the notary, or by a boss to suit the boss's needs, not the public needs). So the expectations of notaries are very vague.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/5/12 3:55pm
Msg #410958

Exactly, Linda, thank you. Oregon is specific in its regs

and responsibilities of Oregon notarii, and particularly with regard to having only limited discretion in performing notarial acts. "A notary needs to remember that they have become an Oregon Notary, not their employer's notary," it specifies.

I'm not saying that answering the phone at 2AM from a bail bondman, and schlepping through the dark of night to assist in a legal process like making bail is mandated in this or any other state - only that a blanket refusal to perform general notary work because it doesn't pay is counter to the Public Office.

jmnsho

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/4/12 11:27pm
Msg #410912

Roger that. n/m

Reply by Isaiah Brown on 2/4/12 11:55pm
Msg #410917

Re: It saddens me...

I think what this person really would like to know is how much she should charge for the transaction. That would include the notarization, travel, etc. I think this person is reaching out to someone who has done this type of work and can help her set a fee. Knowledge of the state fee for an acknowledgment would have been included in the education or refresher requirement to become a notary.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/5/12 12:41am
Msg #410919

And the answer to that question - Transactional Charges -

first and foremost, begins with each state's statutes. All states dictate fees and options to waive same per Notarial act. Some states have limitations on travel and the like, some don't address the issues of such accomodations, for instance.

As you enter the public world of service to our society, please, newbies, take the time to seek the education preparatory to the responsibilities of participating in our daily commerce.

Newies, before one can set a fee, one must know one's costs. Start there.

Reply by HisHughness on 2/5/12 12:22am
Msg #410918

Somebody needs to give me a scorecard

FlaNotary2 declines to do loan closings, and posters here roundly excoriate him. The OP in this thread declines to do general notary work, and she is called "a sad example." I'm getting whiplash.

No comments needed about the poetic justice of a lawyer getting whiplash.

Reply by Roger_OH on 2/5/12 1:03am
Msg #410920

All signing agents are notaries, but...

not all notaries are signing agents.

The OP, in my view, was uninformed about a basic tenant of the notary statutes in every state, that of fees; and to the point that she could not provide a basis to assist her friend with the state fees to which he could add his travel.

I don't begrudge one who chooses to become a notary just to specialize in loans, and not practice as a general notary, although I think they're missing out on the fun of public service.

However, it's still incumbent upon the notary to know their state laws thoroughly, and take some semblance of pride in in the office that we have all inherited from over 2000 years of our forebears around the world.

That evident lack of knowledge was the basis of my lament.

Reply by HisHughness on 2/5/12 1:50am
Msg #410922

Roger, you took a shingle, and built a whole house with it

Nothing the OP said indicates a lack of knowledge of notary law, notary tradition, notary history, or Roger's Rules of Minimal Notarial Competency. For a friend, she wanted to know "what he should charge to go out late night to do an acknowledgement." She doesn't say or even imply that she doesn't know the state-mandated fees. What she doesn't know, for general notary work, is what to charge for mobile services -- "to go out" -- performed after hours -- "late night." She chose an appropriate forum to obtain that information, she sought our advice most respectfully, and I think you need to cut her some slack.

In answer to your question, Cathy, anything after midnight for me starts at $65. That's true even if it's one of the dancers getting off work at the Landing Strip. Except in that case, I pay <her> the $65.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/5/12 3:13am
Msg #410923

I agree with Hugh - except for last paragraph... :>)

When I read the original post, my take was that the person was referring to the fact that it was late at night, not what to charge for a notarization. I did a notarization for a bail bondsman once and he had the same inquiry. He was looking for a notary he could call on a moment's notice. Most of his business comes in during the late night hours with who knows what kind of clientele and he wanted a quick response. That's business I'm not particularly interested in at any price! (And if I was, it would be at a considerably higher price than Hugh's! )

I'm all in favor of doing my part for public service, etc. but we *are* entitled to have our limits... One of mine is being awakened in the middle of the night, throwing on some clothes (forget shower, hair and make-up), then heading out to meet the public looking like - I don't want to say!

Reply by LKT/CA on 2/5/12 7:54pm
Msg #410973

That was my take on the OP's post too, JanetK

From the OP: <<<A new notary has asked me what he should charge **to go out late night** to do an acknowledgement for a bail bondsman.

Reply by gotogirl on 2/6/12 8:31am
Msg #411000

Re: All signing agents are notaries, but...

Continue to hear that Signing agents are dieing breed, that market issues destroyed it. Fail to believe classes would still be offered to us if thats's so. If true, is it inappropriate to keep charging us for certified trainings on closed career? would'nt that be deceitful ? What are the fields that also rely on e-doc's ?

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/6/12 8:51am
Msg #411002

Not dead, but def. on life-support in many areas

As long as somebody is willing to spend $$$ for training, there will be somebody offering it.
Many areas are notary-saturated and the companies are constantly looking for the least expensive person--often to the point that, unless you know your total costs, many are working at a loss.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 2/6/12 11:00am
Msg #411014

There is NO SHORTAGE of signing agents

There are so many, that our fees have constantly been whittled down to the point of ridiculousness, approaching "why bother?" territory. I hope your class did not tell you that $50 per closing is the going rate.

Reply by MikeC/TX on 2/5/12 4:12pm
Msg #410959

Are you channeling Robert?

Just joking, couldn't resist...

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 2/5/12 10:29am
Msg #410932

I too find this very sad

Notaries exist to perform a public service. Because we perform a valuable service we can collect fees for our time, but the point of being a notary should not be solely to make a profit as a loan signer. Notaries who can't perform basic acts and/or refuse to do so are derelict in their duties and, in my opinion, should not be given the privilege of holding public office.

Reply by HisHughness on 2/5/12 11:10am
Msg #410940

Re: I too find this very sad

***Notaries who can't perform basic acts and/or refuse to do so are derelict in their duties***

So a bank notary, who restricts her notarizations to bank customers only -- at the direction of her employer -- is derelict as a notary? A legal secretary who holds her commission so she can notarize documents going out of the office of her attorney employer is derelict because she doesn't have a magnetic sign on her car saying "My stamp is available"? A notary who remains commissioned but decides she just doesn't want to work anymore should be forced to bop down to the salvage yard to notarize Affidavit of Possession documents for those who have had their cars impounded?

The idea that a notary public must embrace all notary work because they are public officials is, I think, absurd on its face. If a notary public elects to offer his/her services to the public, then the NP should offer them without discriminating. As a long-time men's advocate, for example, it would be improper for me to decline to notarize for members of NOW, just as it would be improper for Robert to decline to notarize for people who do not share his inflated view of himself. That in no way precludes a notary from deciding that he/she will simply not offer services to the public, or that he/she will confine his/her services to a specific type of practice.

And to hang some sort of moral condemnation on a notary who has elected to restrict his/her practice is w-a-a-a-y over the edge. We're not the bearers of the Ten Commandments, folks; we're the owners of a stamp that can be purchased at any Office Depot for $12.95 plus tax.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 2/5/12 11:17am
Msg #410943

Re: I too find this very sad

Bank notaries are different - your employer can restrict your services during work hours because they don't want you to neglect your job duties to perform notarizations. If you are available however, you should be willing to notarize for any member of the public and you should know how to do so.

As for your assertion that we are nothing more than mere owners of a stamp, I find this a disgusting statement... If that is all you think of the office we hold than you too don't deserve the privilege of holding it. MHO

Reply by HisHughness on 2/5/12 11:39am
Msg #410947

Re: I too find this very sad

***As for your assertion that we are nothing more than mere owners of a stamp, I find this a disgusting statement... If that is all you think of the office we hold than you too don't deserve the privilege of holding it.***

Sometimes, Robert, a person's stature can be determined by the stature of his enemies. Grant had Robert E. Lee, for example. The Notre Dame of years past had USC in its glory days. Patton had Rommel. Mark Twain had the Catholic Church, the entire British aristocracy, and bigots of all descriptions.

And I've got you to be judged by? I don't mean to whine, but I think I deserve a little better than that. I feel like the neighbor's mangy cat has just peed on my shoe.

Not to put too fine a point on it.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 2/5/12 1:02pm
Msg #410954

Your mumbo jumbo doesn't phase me, Hugh n/m

Reply by MikeC/TX on 2/5/12 4:18pm
Msg #410961

I think you meant "faze"... n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/5/12 4:51pm
Msg #410964

Re: I think you meant "faze"...

Mike, I'm glad you made that remark. The internet has made me a lot less able to use the correct words at the correct time...well, that's what we are going to blame it on, anyhow. I'm pretty sure I've made the "phase" goof, too.

Reply by Buddy Young on 2/5/12 1:02pm
Msg #410953

Re: I too find this very sad

I could be wrong, maybe it's just me. Everytime I read one of Roberts posts, I get the impression that he believes he is the utmost autority on everything, is stubbern, and impossible to reason with.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 2/5/12 3:27pm
Msg #410956

Re: I too find this very sad

Buddy
You are wrong. Robert used to appear to be that way, but he has "matured" over the last couple of years.

And when he is right, he is right! I can only speak for Florida, but a notary public is a public official and there are only a few instances where we can refuse to notarize and "I only do loan signings" is not one of them.
But all notaries should make sure they are familiar with the notary laws in their state regarding their duties and the fees they can charge.
I am first and foremost a notary public.

Reply by Buddy Young on 2/5/12 4:13pm
Msg #410960

Re: OK, I apologize then n/m

Reply by HisHughness on 2/5/12 4:40pm
Msg #410963

No need to apologize, Buddy

Robert's maturity can best be judged by his posts on this forum; this thread is a good example. Though I do have to say, in contrast with the Robert of a couple of years ago, his contributions are far more valuable. Robert's essential problem is that he wants to be somebody and something, and he's not willing to wait till that happens. So he attempts to instill in being a notary public the heft that a state senator or multi-millionaire or All-American athlete enjoys. It sometimes is like watching kabuki theater.

As to the contention that notaries in Florida are prohibited from limiting their clientele by geography, business, time of day, employment, the notary's physical limitations, or any other aspect, note that neither Robert nor his echo has cited statute, regulation or case citation to support that contention. Until then, I think that in Florida and the other 49 states a notary public can decide what segment of the community he or she wants to serve, and can limit practice to that segment -- provided that within that segment he or she does not discriminate.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 2/5/12 5:31pm
Msg #410967

Hugh, you are the one on the self-importance kick. I really

dont need to prove myself to anyone on this forum. When I write a post I am giving my opinion as a notary, notary educator and paralegal... And I dont need to use a lot of big words to impress anyone.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 2/5/12 5:34pm
Msg #410968

Electing to refuse GNW *IS* discrimination IMO n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/5/12 7:32pm
Msg #410971

Well, Robert...ya had me til this statement...

IMO calling it "discrimination" is a bit of a stretch...

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 2/5/12 6:27pm
Msg #410969

You CA and FL notaries who are casting stones, can afford to

Sorry, I can't afford to go 100 miles RT to the West Valley for $2 a signature and some ridulously low mileage fee. However, before too long this is going to change in AZ.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 2/5/12 9:56pm
Msg #410978

Re: You CA and FL notaries who are casting stones, can afford to

Shoshana
I was referring to general notary work when the client comes to the notary. Traveling could be a good reason to refuse.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 2/5/12 11:07pm
Msg #410981

Re: You CA and FL notaries who are casting stones, can afford to

Sylvia,
I am strictly a mobile notary. I will not let strangers into my home. In this era of home invasions, etc., I will not allow a stranger into my home at any price!

Reply by Teri Davis Newman on 2/9/12 2:24pm
Msg #411257

Re: You CA and FL notaries who are casting stones, can afford to

I love being a notary. I get to meet a lot of people and in some instances, help them. I don't charge to notarize single documents that are brought to me, and I don't charge for the actual notarization when I travel--what's the point at the legal Illinois maximum of $1 per signature? I charge for my time and expertise and travel expenses, but there's no charge for the actual signature and stamping--that's free. My time to explain what the document is, expertise in knowing that I can only explain WHAT it is and knowing the difference between an explanation and advice along with not crossing that line, gas, office supplies, etc. are why I charge a fee. I charge for weddings because I am a wedding officiant which is different than being a notary and in Illinois an NP can't perform a wedding anyway--but the two go hand in hand and I love weddings. I feel I am performing a public service and it's very difficult to find a notary where I live, probably because the $1 maximum fee for notarization isn't worth it for most people to bother with becoming a notary. I got to hospitals, nursing homes or wherever I'm needed and since I don't have kids and I'm old (53 LOL) I don't mind going out at odd hours. I owned a limo biz for many years and I'm used to calls at odd hours.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 2/9/12 3:34pm
Msg #411276

Teri

I wish there was a "Like" button for your post.

And to correct one thing in your post - 53 is not old! I am in my 60's and I don't consider myself old - well maybe some days I do

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/6/12 4:19am
Msg #410990

Re: You CA and FL notaries who are casting stones, can afford to

Shoshana, I'm shocked! I didn't expect you to be joining the California bashers, as a former resident of the Golden State! (I looked, but I couldn't find any posts from anyone from CA that seemed to be casting stones... 'Course, it's late & I'm about to shut down for the night, so maybe I missed it in my bleary eyed state?)

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 2/6/12 7:21am
Msg #410995

Re: You CA and FL notaries who are casting stones, can afford to

Janet, certainly not you. But there is one in this thread. Be that as it may, CA notaries do have a lot of leeway in charging for general notary work. The notarizations are $10 each and there are no restictions on travel fees.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/6/12 7:48am
Msg #410997

If it's any consolation Shoshana, I won't travel 100 miles

round trip for our ntoary fee plus travel - #1 it's just not worth the time it takes, and #2 people around here (my area at least) are astounded that they have to pay me to travel to them. I keep GNW local (my home county only) for precisely those reasons.

And yes, one of the legitimate reasons we can refuse to notarize is if the signer can't or won't pay us.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 2/6/12 8:00am
Msg #410998

Re: If it's any consolation Shoshana, I won't travel 100 miles

Maricopa County is very big. I am in the southeast corner. To go to the Northwest corner, it's about 60 miles or more. Just thinking about Sun City West where I have a loan closing tomorrow. The title company is making it worth my while to go there.

Reply by LKT/CA on 2/5/12 7:48pm
Msg #410972

My $0.04

<<<.......we're the owners of a stamp that can be purchased at any Office Depot for $12.95 plus tax.>>>

Not in California.....only approved vendors can manufacture notary seals and ONLY when the notary public presents an ORIGINAL letter of authorization directly from the CA SOS can he/she have a seal made. There must have been a recent law change because previously, the notary needed a letter of authorization for EACH seal to be made. When I renewed my commission recently, I notice that this LOA allowed for two seals to be made.

But aside from that, I do somewhat agree with Hugh's view regarding specializing in a particular area of notarizing. CA notaries, by law, cannot refuse a lawful request during reasonable business hours and so long as the notary does not feel threatened or unsafe in the situation, a lawful request during reasonable business hours must be completed. We are not required to travel or meet at unreasonable hours - such as some businesses that mostly operate at odd hours. And there's nothing in the handbook the *requires* notaries to market or advertise. Therefore, the notary can decide *who* will know that he/she is a notary public.

A notary who only does mobile loan signings probably only markets to the businesses that are in that market. Since the NSA only markets to a specific businesses - it is only THOSE client's who even know he/she is a notary. Also, the notary who only handles loan signings is STILL serving the public - he/she is just doing so through a third party. JMHO

Reply by LKT/CA on 2/5/12 8:03pm
Msg #410974

ANSWER for Cathy Prociada

The service fee - not including notarizations OR travel fee - would be as follows:

8pm - 10:59pm.......$50

11pm - 12:59am.......$75

1am - 4:59am......$150

5am - 7am.......$75

Reply by LKT/CA on 2/5/12 8:04pm
Msg #410975

To add: Those are MY fees n/m

Reply by Lexie on 2/9/12 5:18pm
Msg #411294

Re: ANSWER for Cathy Prociada - FINALLY A REAL ANSWER

I have never done this either, although I do not turn down any notary work for which I have sufficient expertise to understand the documents. I believe I need to be able to understand the paperwork sufficiently to determine if I believe there is a problem or not. I don't make any snap judgment, nor do I refuse outright, but if I do notarize where I am not certain of the paperwork, I note my concerns and try to be specific, so I will clearly remember what I was concerned with. I am especially careful to review the ID, although I am always careful, I may copy the ID and attach it to my paperwork. If this is overkill, I think of my Dad saying better safe than sorry. Oh and I am a NP because my mother, while she was dying, told me she thought it was a good thing for me to do. She was right. I enjoy helping people and as a signing agent I help them make their lives a little better, I think. Even if I don't think what they are doing is a great idea, I smile and get them through the process and explain what I am allowed, and refer them to LO's for the rest. I treat all with respect and feel good about what I do. My service is to the borrowers, representing the SS or Title and Lender. The way I perform my service is mine, I am proud of it.