Posted by Belinda/CA on 2/27/12 4:38pm
Msg #413249
CA Notaries and taking foreign passports as ID
Do you as a CA notary take foreign passports as ID? Do you make sure the passport contains a photograph, description of the person, signature of the person, and an identifying number? (Not expecting you to answer on the forum.)
Several of my notary friends, until our last meeting, routinely took foreign passports as long as immigration has stamped the passport. They never look for the identifying requirements. I recently went over this at our area notary get-together and several had never heard of or read the following.
Consequently I am posting as an FYI.
California Secretary of State Notary Public Handbook 2012 (also in previous books).
Please see page 8, 40, 41. Note items 3 and a.
“Identification Requirements
A. Paper Identification Documents...
1. An identification card or driver’s license issued by the California Department of Motor Vehicles;
2. A United States passport;
3. Other California-approved identification card, consisting of any one of the following, provided that it also contains a photograph, description of the person, signature of the person, and an identifying number:
a. A passport issued by a foreign government, provided that it has been stamped by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services;”
b. a driver’s license issued by another state of by a Canadian or Mexican public agency authorized to issue driver’s licences;
and so on c. through f.
I have yet to see a foreign passport containing a description of the person. Some don’t have a signature either.
By the way. The NNA CA notary Primer leaves out the above information and simply says you can take a foreign passport as ID, pages 44 and 45. They do however quote the law on page 133 under Civil Code. But, most people do not look up the details.
Do you know of a foreign passport that meets these requirements?
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Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 2/27/12 5:16pm
Msg #413253
I have never been presented with a foreign passport.
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Reply by Les_CO on 2/27/12 5:30pm
Msg #413255
Are you suggesting that CA notaries NOT take foreign passports as valid ID if they DO NOT contain a written description (height/weight/eye/hair color/gender) of the holder?
I think your example states it quite clearly: “3a. A passport issued by a foreign government, provided that it has been stamped by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services;”
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Reply by Belinda/CA on 2/27/12 5:35pm
Msg #413258
I suppose you have to make up your own mind. 3 and 'a' do go together. Do you think 3 is saying that 'a' should contain a photograph, description of the person, signature of the person, and an identifying number?
"3. Other California-approved identification card, consisting of any one of the following, provided that it also contains a photograph, description of the person, signature of the person, and an identifying number:
a. A passport issued by a foreign government, provided that it has been stamped by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services;
b. through f.”
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Reply by Les_CO on 2/27/12 5:48pm
Msg #413265
I would accept as legal, appropriate and valid ID, documentation meeting “any” of the CA designated requirements. Not necessarily 'ALL' of the above stated.
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Reply by Yoli/CA on 2/27/12 5:30pm
Msg #413257
Have accepted passports from China meeting all criteria on 3a.
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Reply by Belinda/CA on 2/27/12 5:36pm
Msg #413260
Meet requirements of 3.a. or 3 and 'a'? n/m
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Reply by Yoli/CA on 2/27/12 5:39pm
Msg #413261
Re: Meet requirements of 3.a. or 3 and 'a'?
3a.
#3 states "California-approved". I don't believe California would have a voice in approving a foreign country's ID.
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/27/12 5:45pm
Msg #413263
Not in CA but I believe Belinda is right
Your handbook says
"“Identification Requirements
A. Paper Identification Documents...
3. Other California-approved identification card, consisting of any one of the following, PROVIDED THAT IT ALSO CONTAINS A PHOTOGRAPH, DESCRIPTION OF THE PERSON, SIGNATURE OF THE PERSON *AND* AN IDENTIFYING NUMBER: (caps by me for emphasis)
a. A passport issued by a foreign government, provided that it has been stamped by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services;”
You can accept the foreign passport but it must conform with CA requirements stated in the paragraph....
JMO
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Reply by VT_Syrup on 2/27/12 5:47pm
Msg #413264
Page number essential
The passport requirement is stated in two places, the handbook composed by the Secretary of State's office, on page 8, and the copy of the law, on page 41. On page 8, lower-case letters are lower-level details compared to upper case letters. On page 41, it's the opposite.
As far as foreign passports being California-approved, I think means by passing the law the legislature has approved some foreign passports as ID for notarizations, that is, those that meet all the requirements discussed in this thread, including physical descriptions. Foreigners whose passports lack physical descriptions should take their business to states that want their money.
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Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 2/27/12 5:49pm
Msg #413266
Re: Meet requirements of 3.a. or 3 and 'a'?
I justy copied from 2012 California notary Public Handbook:
NOTE: THE LAST PARAGRAPH - NOTE.
A. Paper Identification Documents – Identity of the signer can be established by the notary public’s reasonable reliance on the presentation of any one of the following documents, if the identification document is current or has been issued within five years (Civil Code section 1185(b)(3) & (4)):
1. An identification card or driver’s license issued by the California Department of Motor Vehicles;
2. A United States passport;
3. Other California-approved identification card, consisting of any one of the following, provided that it also contains a photograph, description of the person, signature of the person, and an identifying number:
(a) A passport issued by a foreign government, provided that it has been stamped by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services;
(b) A driver’s license issued by another state or by a Canadian or Mexican public agency authorized to issue driver’s licenses;
(c) An identification card issued by another state;
(d) A United States military identification card with the required photograph, description of the person, signature of the person, and an identifying number. (Some military identification cards do not contain all the required information.);
(e) An inmate identification card issued by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, if the inmate is in custody; or
(f) An employee identification card issued by an agency or office of the State of California, or an agency or office of a city, county, or city and county in California.
Note: The notary public must include in his or her journal the type of identifying document, the governmental agency issuing the document, the serial or identifying number of the document, and the date of issue or expiration of the document that was used to establish the identity of the signer. (Government Code section 8206(a)(2)(D))
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Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 2/27/12 5:51pm
Msg #413267
Re: Meet requirements of 3.a. or 3 and 'a'?
justy copied from 2012 California notary Public Handbook:
NOTE: THE LAST PARAGRAPH - NOTE.
rEAD THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH.....
Note: The notary public must include in his or her journal the type of identifying document, the governmental agency issuing the document, the serial or identifying number of the document, and the date of issue or expiration of the document that was used to establish the identity of the signer. (Government Code section 8206(a)(2)(D))
A. Paper Identification Documents – Identity of the signer can be established by the notary public’s reasonable reliance on the presentation of any one of the following documents, if the identification document is current or has been issued within five years (Civil Code section 1185(b)(3) & (4)):
1. An identification card or driver’s license issued by the California Department of Motor Vehicles;
2. A United States passport;
3. Other California-approved identification card, consisting of any one of the following, provided that it also contains a photograph, description of the person, signature of the person, and an identifying number:
(a) A passport issued by a foreign government, provided that it has been stamped by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services;
(b) A driver’s license issued by another state or by a Canadian or Mexican public agency authorized to issue driver’s licenses;
(c) An identification card issued by another state;
(d) A United States military identification card with the required photograph, description of the person, signature of the person, and an identifying number. (Some military identification cards do not contain all the required information.);
(e) An inmate identification card issued by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, if the inmate is in custody; or
(f) An employee identification card issued by an agency or office of the State of California, or an agency or office of a city, county, or city and county in California.
Note: The notary public must include in his or her journal the type of identifying document, the governmental agency issuing the document, the serial or identifying number of the document, and the date of issue or expiration of the document that was used to establish the identity of the signer. (Government Code section 8206(a)(2)(D))
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Reply by Les_CO on 2/27/12 5:51pm
Msg #413268
Re: Meet requirements of 3.a. or 3 and 'a'?
I would accept as legal, appropriate and valid ID any document meeting “any” of the CA designated requirements. Not necessarily ALL the above stated.
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/27/12 6:02pm
Msg #413269
Re: Meet requirements of 3.a. or 3 and 'a'?
"PROVIDED THAT IT ALSO CONTAINS A PHOTOGRAPH, DESCRIPTION OF THE PERSON, SIGNATURE OF THE PERSON *AND* AN IDENTIFYING NUMBER: (caps by me for emphasis)"
Les...this is right from the handbook...in black and white - you'd accept any and not all when the handbook specifically says "And" ?? IMHO you'd be wrong.
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Reply by Les_CO on 2/27/12 6:51pm
Msg #413287
Re: Meet requirements of 3.a. or 3 and 'a'?
Yes I take: “A passport issued by a foreign government, provided that it has been stamped by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services;” on its face to mean what it says.
Perhaps we read/interpret differently? I’m not a CA notary and I haven’t read the handbook, so I guess it’s a moot point. I do think that a CA notary that refuses to notarize a signature because a foreign passport bearer produced a passport as described, but without a written physical description would be remiss in their duties. I have seen a number of different countrys passports (including US) that do contain a photo, a signature and an identifying number but no written physical description, and I would accept them as proper ID
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Reply by Belinda/CA on 2/27/12 9:05pm
Msg #413309
But did it meet the requirement on 3, which describes 3a?
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Reply by FlaNotary2 on 2/27/12 6:10pm
Msg #413271
OK... the question then becomes, what is a "description of
the person"?
IMO, a foreign passport does describe a person. A person's name and date of birth is a description of the person. A photo is a photographic description of the person. That statue does not define "description of a person" as a statement of the person's height or weight, which can fluctuate anyway.
You are overthinking this, IMO.
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/27/12 6:26pm
Msg #413277
I think description is height, weight & eye color...JMO n/m
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Reply by FlaNotary2 on 2/27/12 6:29pm
Msg #413279
A person can be described by any number of things
For example, Linda, someone might "describe" you as a paralegal. There are some countries (I know the Bahamas is one) where occupation is stated in a passport. Is that any less of a description than your weight? Doesn't a person's date and place of birth "describe" that person? Does a photo not describe a person, albeit without words?
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/27/12 6:38pm
Msg #413283
Re: A person can be described by any number of things
" Is that any less of a description than your weight? Doesn't a person's date and place of birth "describe" that person?"
Not for identification purposes it doesn't -
Who you looking for? A paralegal...
huh??
NOW who's overthinking. A description of someone is that information that readily leads you to "identify" them...c'mon Robert...
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Reply by JAM/CA on 2/27/12 6:44pm
Msg #413284
Re: A person can be described by any number of things
3. Other California-approved identification card, consisting of any one of the following, provided that it also contains a photograph, description of the person, signature of the person, and an identifying number:
a. A passport issued by a foreign government, provided that it has been stamped by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services;
I have no problem accepting a foreign passport, as long as it has been stamped by U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. United States passports do not have a physical description either. The passports are acceptable I.D. Number "3" above refers to other California-approved I.D. cards, like Senior I.D. or State I.D.
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Reply by sealed/CA on 2/27/12 6:55pm
Msg #413288
Re: A person can be described by any number of things
I have no problem accepting a foreign passport, as long as it has been stamped by U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. United States passports do not have a physical description either.
I agree with JAM/CA! I have personally never seen a passport with a physical description. I have seen many with, and many without the stamp.
If they are not stamped by one of the U.S. stamps described above, I will not use it as I.D. If it has a stamp then we proceed.
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Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 2/28/12 10:23am
Msg #413342
I'm with Sealed and JAM on this one.... n/m
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Reply by Belinda/CA on 2/27/12 7:08pm
Msg #413290
So, are you really reading what the SOS states? Can you
possibly read what the SOS states and then say you will accept a foreign passport with only an immigration stamp? Yikes.
2012 California notary Public Handbook:
The (((((comments)))) are mine and I did capitalize the words IF and AND.
A. Paper Identification Documents – Identity of the signer can be established by the notary public’s reasonable reliance on the presentation of any one of the following documents, IF the identification document is current or has been issued within five years (Civil Code section 1185(b)(3) & (4)):
1. An identification card or driver’s license issued by the California Department of Motor Vehicles;
2. A United States passport; ((((does not say here it has to contain any certain information.))))
3. OTHER California-approved identification card, consisting of any one of the following (((a - f. So, each item a - f must contain the following))), provided that it also contains a photograph, description of the person, signature of the person, AND an identifying number:
(a) A passport issued by a foreign government, provided that it has been stamped by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (((and the items listed above)));
(b) A driver’s license issued by another state or by a Canadian or Mexican public agency authorized to issue driver’s licenses(((and the items listed above)));
(c) An identification card issued by another state(((and the items listed above)));
(d) A United States military identification card with the required photograph, description of the person, signature of the person, and an identifying number. (Some military identification cards do not contain all the required information.)(((and the items listed above)));
(e) An inmate identification card issued by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, if the inmate is in custody(((and the items listed above))); or
(f) An employee identification card issued by an agency or office of the State of California, or an agency or office of a city, county, or city and county in California(((and the items listed above))).
So far two of you have openly stated you will take a foreign passport containing only an immigration stamp and you are happy with that. WoW.
You are correct stating that foreign passports do not contain a physical description. So, let me think here. We through out the requirements so we can take an ID that we want to take or that we have been taking. I am really hearing this?!
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Reply by jba/fl on 2/27/12 7:22pm
Msg #413293
Re: So, are you really reading what the SOS states? Can you
"You are correct stating that foreign passports do not contain a physical description. So, let me think here. We through (sic) out the requirements so we can take an ID that we want to take or that we have been taking. I am really hearing this?!"
If I come from Turkey with my passport, and am visiting CA and need something notarized, you will not accept my passport, even though I have a stamp from U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service, (which says I can be in this country - they looked it up on the computer when I entered the country and then stamped my passport, made notations in their computer database, then smiled and said, "Welcome to the US of A".) Did they also say at that same moment, "We can no longer honor your passport as ID?" and if you need anything else in this country you are screwed?
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/27/12 7:31pm
Msg #413294
According to the CA SOS..that's right..it's not acceptable
Don't shoot the messenger...she didn't write the handbook..she read it...and if you read it that's what it says....
American issued licenses and passports are simply stated as acceptable...OTHER paper ID is treated differently...OTHER paper ID is acceptable IF it contains all the elements....
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Reply by jba/fl on 2/27/12 7:36pm
Msg #413295
Other paper id, passport, is given exception - the stamp.l n/m
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Reply by Joan Malone on 2/27/12 7:38pm
Msg #413297
Re: So, are you really reading what the SOS states? Can you
I see how you are reading the handbook Belinda and no begrudge you. Why would the SOS say Foreign Passports are acceptable as long as they are stamped with the proper U.S. stamp, knowing passports don't have physical descriptions? Either they are acceptable or they are not. No passport has a physical description, other than photo, signature, identifying number, issue date and expiration date.
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Reply by Belinda/CA on 2/27/12 8:39pm
Msg #413308
All due respect, but you are not reading the handbook as
quoted. In #3 it says items subsctions a - f must contain photo, phsycial description, signature, number AND in addition to these items it must be stamp by immigration. In addition to. Not instead of.
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Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 2/28/12 1:04pm
Msg #413365
Re: So, are you really reading what the SOS states? Can you
justy copied from 2012 California notary Public Handbook:
NOTE: THE LAST PARAGRAPH - NOTE.
A. Paper Identification Documents – Identity of the signer can be established by the notary public’s reasonable reliance on the presentation of any one of the following documents, if the identification document is current or has been issued within five years (Civil Code section 1185(b)(3) & (4)):
1. An identification card or driver’s license issued by the California Department of Motor Vehicles;
2. A United States passport;
3. Other California-approved identification card, consisting of any one of the following, provided that it also contains a photograph, description of the person, signature of the person, and an identifying number:
(a) A passport issued by a foreign government, provided that it has been stamped by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services;
Period.
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Reply by VT_Syrup on 2/27/12 6:49pm
Msg #413286
Re: A person can be described by any number of things
If you want to think of a photograph as a description of a person, you have to realize that is already a separate requirement, so treating it as a description would be redundant. Could you treat the California legislature as being so stupid they didn't notice the redundancy? I think they're that stupid, but fortunately they don't make the laws I have to obey. A date of birth is a description that is not covered by any of the other requirements, so that might be enough to count as a description.
Please don't think I consider California legislators as the only stupid ones; Vermont is considering a bill that would require you to submit a photocopy of ID AND notarization to get a vital record. One of the acceptable ID copies is a US passport, provided it has an address. Of course, US passports don't have addresses unless the holder writes it in pencil on the page provided for that purpose.
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Reply by jba/fl on 2/27/12 6:46pm
Msg #413285
Turkey has signature of holder and biometric passports now.
It is my opinion that 3.a. A passport issued by a foreign government, PROVIDED THAT IT HAS BEEN STAMPED BY THE U.S.IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE or the U.S.CITIZENSHIP AND IMMEIGRATION SERVICES meets the requirements of CA law for id'ing a person. (emphasis mine)
By stating these requirements, CA does, by default, accept foreign passports under these conditions knowing in all probability that all elements of 3. are not available on foreign passports, hence the exception.
JMHO
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Reply by Belinda/CA on 2/27/12 7:37pm
Msg #413296
What?
You said, "It is my opinion that 3.a. A passport issued by a foreign government, PROVIDED THAT IT HAS BEEN STAMPED BY THE U.S.IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE or the U.S.CITIZENSHIP AND IMMEIGRATION SERVICES meets the requirements of CA law for id'ing a person. (emphasis mine)"
Are you reading 3.a. only and NOT 3 above it which describes 'a'.
#3 is talking about and describing 'a-f'.
You stated, "CA does, by default, accept foreign passports under these conditions knowing in all probability that all elements of 3. are not available on foreign passports, hence the exception."
What? CA accepts foreign passports knowing they don't meet SOS requirements? What am I missing here? Exceptions?
Oh, I see, if an identifying document does not contain all required information we can use it anyway. I see. I see! Since all elements are not available on the ID document we can use it anyway. This board is so educational.
Oh, and CA is so short on ink and paper they could not make another sentence or two exclusing foreign passports from these requirements. You know how we feel about our trees here.
"CA by default accepts foreign passports?"
Really? When you call the CA SOS ask for Christina. Really anyone there can answer your questions.
Is it possible CA knows foreign passports do not have that information and want more than a foreign passport? Hum...
Well, whatever CA's reasoning is, should we abide by the Civil Codes set forth by the Secretary of State or not? Apparently several of you think not.
My OP was wondering if CA notaries take foreign passports for ID and if so, did they contain all the required info. I also wondered if anyone knows of a foreign passport that meets these requirements.
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Reply by jba/fl on 2/27/12 7:43pm
Msg #413299
Belinda: make it your personal mission tomorrow to
call the SOS for clarification on this point and report back here.
We, Linda H and I, really want to know. I am sure that others would like to know as well.
For the record: I do appreciate your diligence in this matter; it demonstrates a serious mind with a serious subject and a sensitive issue.
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Reply by Belinda/CA on 2/27/12 7:46pm
Msg #413300
I have spoken with them. That is why I quoted the
name Christina at the SOS office. She is who I spoke with.
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Reply by jba/fl on 2/27/12 7:47pm
Msg #413301
And if I am wrong, I will be happily corrected. n/m
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Reply by Belinda/CA on 2/27/12 7:49pm
Msg #413302
Why do some names on forum show up bold black and
some show up blue? Does it do this on you guys' screens or just mine?
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Reply by jba/fl on 2/27/12 7:59pm
Msg #413303
While you are typing, there is box next to your name....
we have checked our boxes, you have not.
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/27/12 8:00pm
Msg #413304
Means we've linked out names to our posts
When you're writing your message...the box right next to where your name is - if it's checked your name is in blue and you can click on the name to view the profile...if it's not your name is in black...and if you choose NOT to check that box and thereby NOT link your name others will make you black and blue...
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Reply by jba/fl on 2/27/12 8:28pm
Msg #413305
So true! n/m
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Reply by Buddy Young on 2/27/12 9:06pm
Msg #413310
Re: Belinda: make it your personal mission tomorrow to
I can see and understand both sides of the issue here.
Which one is right? ( beats me )
I think the only way to resolve this is to place a call to the CA SOS
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Reply by Belinda/CA on 2/27/12 9:24pm
Msg #413311
The call has been placed as stated earlier. SOS is the one
stating that all of the items are required for a foreign passport. It certainly appears obvious from the SOS Civil Code as well.
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Reply by Les_CO on 2/27/12 10:00pm
Msg #413315
Re: The call has been placed as stated earlier. SOS is the one
We disagree on this…I think? ( I would take a current foreign passport (without written physical description) as an acceptable ID… and you would not? Still you look better in BLUE! Welcome!
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Reply by jba/fl on 2/27/12 10:56pm
Msg #413322
Re: The call has been placed as stated earlier. SOS is the one
I am left wondering if another person besides Christina would have a different interpretation? Was this put in writing or just over phone? If you got Cathie next, what would she say? Or Carol? Or Nancy? Would you then decide by consensus? averaging opinions?
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Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 2/27/12 11:45pm
Msg #413324
In CA, speak to 5 people at the SOS office
You will get at least 8 opinions. In the Phoenix office in AZ, only one person fields the queries. That leads to consistency in the answers.
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Reply by Belinda/CA on 3/1/12 10:24am
Msg #413607
Should say 4. (A) not 3. (A) n/m
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Reply by desktopfull on 2/28/12 8:57am
Msg #413334
Since every foreign passport I've ever seen is written in the language from the issuing country and I can't read the language (therefore have no idea what is written on the passport) I simply ask for their visa card and they gladly hand it to me for id. They are supposed to have that card with them at all times while in the US, along with their passport. I've found this saves a lot of problems.
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/28/12 9:07am
Msg #413335
Where in FL law is a visa card acceptable? IMWTK n/m
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Reply by janCA on 2/28/12 9:39am
Msg #413337
The CA SOS only regurgitates what is in the book.
They will never give a full explanation. And Shoshana is correct, you talk with five different people you will get 8 different answers. I don't think any of them are notaries.
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Reply by desktopfull on 2/28/12 10:21am
Msg #413341
Gov. Man. Page 32 (3) (i) states
An identification card issued by the U.S. Department of Justice, Immigration and Naturalization
Service.
INS issues the visa.
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/28/12 10:26am
Msg #413343
Thank you...I missed that one... n/m
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Reply by desktopfull on 2/28/12 10:33am
Msg #413345
Your welcome, I have also missed a few things or forgotten
after all this time and have been reviewing the manual for refresher and updates lately. Was reminded recently not to rely on memory, but to actually know the notary laws by someone.
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Reply by Belinda/CA on 2/28/12 10:16am
Msg #413339
Civil Code. Does Item 3 not describe 3.a?
All the requirements in Item 3 + immigration stamp required for foreign passport.
I enjoy all the comments.
Are the CA notaries checking this out for themselves? Are you concerned about doing things correctly CA (whether we like it or not)? Do we really have to call the SOS for a consensus interpretation? What part of the code is not clear when you set aside what you have been doing and what you want to do? When I am presented with new information I thoroughly investigate it and make sure I can stand next to the plumbline. Please offer me up some concrete information to the contrary and I'll hash it over.
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Reply by rengel/CA on 2/28/12 12:04pm
Msg #413353
Agree with Belinda
Capitalization below by me - unless the foreign passport has a description ie. height, weight, eye color, hair color,(as our drivers licenses do) I'm not going to accept it. Sorry, no can do.
"3. Other California-approved identification card, consisting of any one of the following, PROVIDED THAT IT ALSO CONTAINS a photograph, DESCRIPTION OF THE PERSON, signature of the person, and an identifying number:
a. A passport issued by a foreign government, provided that it has been stamped by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services;
b. through f.”
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Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/29/12 3:21am
Msg #413460
Re: Agree with Belinda
Well, this entire thread has been enlightening to me because I never looked at it as closely as Belinda has. Now that I have, the way I read the law, I would have to interpret it the same as Belinda and rengel/CA.
US passports are specifically listed as a separate numbered item (#2) and excluded from the requirement to have a physical description. However, for some reason the writers of the law chose to put foreign passports on the list of other forms of ID that they say must include all four components mentioned. They could have just as easily included them under item 2, along with US passports, but they did not. If you follow normal outline conventions, I don't see any other way to interpret this - even though it doesn't make sense to me, and apparently many others.
As for what constitutes a physical description, given the context (i.e. alternatives to the first items mentioned, a driver license or DMV ID, which could be considered the "standard"), it seems obvious to me that they're looking for height, weight, eye color, and hair color.
This might be an issue worth bringing to the attention of the SOS herself for re-evaluation. I'm not sure what rationale there could be for the physical description requirement for a foreign passport, especially since a passport seems to be universally accepted as ID.
Very interesting discussion, though!
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Reply by JAM/CA on 2/28/12 1:32pm
Msg #413372
Just got off the phone with Deana at the Secretary of State office and she suggest you call her Supervisor at the SOS, Sylvia Phelan.
Foreign Passports are acceptable for I.D., as long as they are stamped by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. She states, no passports have physical descriptions and that you need to read each subsection separately.
For instance: 3 (d) states exactly what is required regarding acceptance of U.S. military I.D.
With your interpretation Belinda, no foreign passports would be acceptable, so why list it as an acceptable form of I.D. ?
Deana at the SOS was quite clear, that we can accept foreign passports as long as they are stamped.
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Reply by sealed/CA on 2/28/12 1:59pm
Msg #413380
Thank you JAM/CA. Now we can put it to rest.
Blessings...
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Reply by Belinda/CA on 2/28/12 5:15pm
Msg #413418
Glad some more clarification is coming in. Two people at SOS
have told me it is not acceptable without all the other criteria. You would hope/think they could get it together and make it clear. At least agree with each other!!!
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Reply by Belinda/CA on 2/28/12 5:16pm
Msg #413419
Wonder if we can get this in writing from SOS? n/m
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Reply by VT_Syrup on 2/28/12 6:07pm
Msg #413426
CA SOS phone call like a background check...
...that the subject of the check has in his/her drawer and sends out copies on request. If it isn't on the SOS website, or on SOS letterhead, it's useless both to CA notaries who want to protect themselves from future disciplinary action. Foreign visitors who want to get something notarized will need it on the website, cuz they have virtually no chance of finding one of the notaries that got the thumbs-up from the SOS by phone or letter.
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Reply by JAM/CA on 2/28/12 6:12pm
Msg #413427
Re: Wonder if we can get this in writing from SOS?
I was told by Deana , that even the Supervisor would not put it in writing, because they are not notaries. I, like you Belinda want to follow the law precisely. Hope this comes out okay. Sent from the Droid, early for signing.
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