Posted by Kenny Services - Dawn on 2/10/12 9:11pm
Msg #411449

Need Help please for a closing tomorrow

Hello, my closing is in Illinois for a 2nd home in Michigan, I just received the Docs, Some of the Docs and acknowledgement have been pre-printed with the State of Michigan, and County of GOGEBIC, but I will be notarizing in Illinois County of DuPage. Can I cross out Michigan and GOGEBIC and replace with the state and county I am notarizing in? I cant remember but I think I did that on the last one I did similar to this one. I appreciate your help on this, thank you in advance :-)

Reply by Buddy Young on 2/10/12 9:15pm
Msg #411451

Re: yes n/m

Reply by Kenny Services - Dawn on 2/10/12 9:33pm
Msg #411454

Sorry one more question...Michigan is a witness state, Illinois is not, since the property is in Michigan does the borrower need a witness even though we are signing in illinois?
Thanks so much!!!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/10/12 9:37pm
Msg #411455

Yes...witness requirements follow where the property

is.

Also, as for the venue, check with hiring party that it's okay - lender may not allow changes (like Provident). Also let hiring party make the call about the witnesses.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 2/11/12 9:41am
Msg #411475

Provident Venue change. Haven't had a Provident requiring a

venue change in a while, but I have been advised that they now permit the NP to correct and initial the venue in the notary block. Other changes are still verboten.
Check with the hiring entityto be sure.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 2/11/12 11:08am
Msg #411479

Bob, I just recieved this from Central Signing Service re

Provident Loans NOTHING can be crossed out.

* Changes CANNOT be made to the notary jurats or acknowledgements – attach a new jurat or acknowledgment if anything needs to be changed.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/10/12 9:38pm
Msg #411456

Yes...witness requirements follow where the property

is.

Also, as for the venue, check with hiring party that it's okay - lender may not allow changes (like Provident). Also let hiring party make the call about the witnesses.

Also, heads up on faxback requirements - investment property is immediate funding..

Reply by NJDiva on 2/10/12 9:46pm
Msg #411457

HUH? "Also, as for the venue, check with hiring party

that it's okay". Linda, are you suggesting she not make the change? Or are you saying that because they may want to replace those particular doc's with the actual venue preprinted?

Because it absolutely must be changed within the acknowledgment. Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/10/12 9:50pm
Msg #411458

I believe what Linda means is that if it is

Provident (or a similar lender), the lender should be allowed to replace the document so that no strikeouts occur. The information cannot be left incorrect. No doubt about it. But, the lender may need to issue the correction. Otherwise, it's going to be a bust.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/10/12 10:00pm
Msg #411461

Exactly...

I had a Provident loan - woman's middle initial was not correct on the docs and she had absolutely NO ID showing that middle initial...they would not let me strike out in my cert...they found another notary who did it.

That's what I meant...but you're absolutely right...the venue MUST reflect where the signing is taking place...one way or another..

Reply by NJDiva on 2/10/12 10:01pm
Msg #411462

Exactly what I thought you meant, just wanted to

make sure it was clear.

Of course, I wasn't contradicting you by ANY means, but I think you know that Linda!

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 2/11/12 8:44am
Msg #411471

You could have attached a loose cert right?

Or am i missing something? It's early and i just got out of bed.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/11/12 9:19am
Msg #411473

Nope..had to use their docs...

or at least that's what SS told me.

Think what bothered me more was that they got someone to do it without proper ID - even though the recorded doc showed wifey produced a DL as ID - I'd been that road..I know what was on the wife's DL - and it wasn't sufficient.

Ah well

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 2/11/12 2:21pm
Msg #411495

Perhaps they have changed their policy since then.

I have no problem with a loos cert.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/11/12 8:45pm
Msg #411509

Re: Nope..had to use their docs...

*Think what bothered me more was that they got someone to do it without proper ID - even though the recorded doc showed wifey produced a DL as ID - I'd been that road..I know what was on the wife's DL - and it wasn't sufficient.*

You know what I'm going to say, Linda. We always disagree strongly on this and I really don't want notaries to have only one side of the coin to look at. No state law that I am aware of requires a middle initial match in order to sufficiently ID a signer. Please correct me if I am wrong.

So, I'd be that "someone" who would notarize that document without losing a minute's sleep.

On the other hand, if I turned that person away, it would be because there was evidence that they were *not* who they purported to be. I would not care how many DLs they brought me at that point with a middle initial. I would have already contacted the authorities and have done so in the past. I seek to identify the signer, not to identify fraud. (Innocent until proven guilty.)

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 2/11/12 1:20am
Msg #411468

No witness requirement in Michigan. n/m

Reply by Larry/IL on 2/11/12 8:48am
Msg #411472

No witness requirement in Michigan. It's getting worse!!!!

With all the other unnecessary documents and requests that we get, I have had a few appointments where witnesses were required by the lender even though not required by the venue or location of the property.

This happen recently with a Sunshine Signing / James B Nutter. This was one of the worst loan documentation packages I had ever seen. It was for a refinance for a O/O property in IL. IL is not a witness state. I emailed Sunshine 2 hours before the appointment to confirm the witness requirements. They called me back when I was around the corner and 5 minutes from the borrower. The borrower was extremely upset about this requirement, and totally unprepared for it, took an extra 20 minutes to take care of it.

Poor Women in her 60s had to keep getting up to go locate information, such as previous loan documents to use information to fill in non required forms. HOI policy information, again to fill in forms, even though lender was sent same information. Lender inserting lines for initials all over documents i.e. Seller/Borrower/Contractor Affidavits. I see this doc all the time, it does not originate with these initial lines. Three pages long, 3rd page for signatures and Notary ack. No other lender puts theses initial lines all over it, had to be 10 places.

Lender docs and Title docs duplicated 13 pages that they all wanted signed. Then there was completely useless acknowledgements for documents i.e. Borrower had to sign the privacy notice, (which isn't required), then there was an acknowledgement that that received and signed the privacy notice! Then there was about 10 pages of docs that should have been sign when the loan was APPed, or very shortly after.

Loan was about 190 pages with half being useless unrequired documents. This along with the borrower having to keep getting up from the table to hunt information and fill out forms turned what should have been an hour closing into a two and half hour closing. The borrower was highly upset, noting she had done a few closings and this was the most stupid and worst one ever. She said she was sorry she went with this lender. I told Sunshine to never call me again for a James B Nutter, they couldn't pay me enough for that much aggravation.

Lately I have had application forms that need to be filled out, appraisals that need to be printed and recently I have been asked to confirm information in documents such as pin numbers, counties in legal descriptions, information in loan apps and VA documents. Seems they want us to start covering the L/Os work, the Appraiser's work and even the title company's work all while the document packages keep approaching 200 + pages.

It would really be nice to get every lender and title company on the same page. If not, as much as I hate to say it, (it makes me cringe), the government should require standardization of all lender and title docs. When ING can do a refi with 59 pages and Chase can consistently do refis with 85-95 pages it tells you these other lenders and title companies do not know what they are doing.

Reply by jba/fl on 2/11/12 11:08am
Msg #411480

It's getting worse!!!!

Much worse, I agree. 160 pages of crappy docs this am. Wanted 2 copies of sig. aff for each BO, sign all credit reports (6 pages ea. bo), 2 RTC ea BO returned,many other duplicates. Since this was a no sign as the LO did not send HUD in advance as requested, could not reach him either, I saved some time but not enough. The junk fees are increasing, payoffs way off base (this bo called for payoff from the table - $2K+ diff. so we can't think it is because of the interest, which was calculated incorrectly also - what a mess. TC didn't even fill in payoff sheet which bo had to sign, date and have notarized which was reason for call for payoff.

When and if I am called for resign, I'm refusing...there is no need for all this. This is sloppy and incomplete work IMO from all involved. Plus - most scanned to legal which really wastes my resources. I guess you can say I just was not happy this morning.

Reply by Kenny Services - Dawn on 2/10/12 11:30pm
Msg #411465

Thank you all for replying! I will ask the TC about the witness. As for the venue, I will tell them I will have to cross out and fill in unless they want to send corrected ones. Thanks again, I love this forum!!!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/11/12 3:07am
Msg #411470

I'd bet dollars to donuts that ReneeK_MI knows more about MI requirements than your client! I'm just sayin'...

Reply by A S Johnson on 2/11/12 9:20am
Msg #411474

1st, most important, ask these question of the hiring party.
If for some reason you can not get them:
are you asking about the state, county in the docs or in your notary cert? If in the docs, this is not your problem. If in your notary cert, strike thru the pre-printed items that do not agree with where you are and write in the proper state and count you are in.
Remember you are a notary and only the notary cert is what concerns you.
As to witness, that is up to the state the property is in.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 2/11/12 9:43am
Msg #411476

Just draw one line through the venue, print in the correct venue and initial. AND IT MUST BE IN BLACK INK! If it just a refi, NO witness is needed for the mortgage and we haven't needed one in almost 10 years.

Reply by Kenny Services - Dawn on 2/11/12 11:11am
Msg #411481

Dorothy and Renee, All the affidavits, such as signature, Occupancy. and special survey, also the compliance agreement, and the acknowledgement to the mortgage all have the Venue of State of: Michigan and County of: Gogebic. So I can draw a line though this with a black pen and write in Illinois, correct?

Thanks everyone, I am learning alot from reading all of this!!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/11/12 1:13pm
Msg #411490

I think your answer is an unequivocal YES. I do that on a regular basis, as needed. It's something we are bound to run into from time to time when docs are generated in an area other than where the property is located. It's just one of the things we need to look out for when getting a package signed. Also, don't forget to initial the correction.

Reply by Kenny Services - Dawn on 2/11/12 2:00pm
Msg #411494

Thank You JanetK!!

Have a great day everyone!

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 2/11/12 3:43pm
Msg #411498

JUST DON'T FORGET THE BLACK INK n/m

Reply by Kenny Services - Dawn on 2/11/12 3:53pm
Msg #411503

Re: JUST DON'T FORGET THE BLACK INK

Ok, I wont thanks!

Here is another question though, TC did not indicate the color ink, hence; blue vs black, most usually require Blue. This is the first closing I am doing for this specific TC, so what color would you have the borrowers sign with? I am getting a headache worrying about this package! LOL

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/11/12 4:02pm
Msg #411505

When I have a closing for property outside my state

to ensure recordable docs and fundable loan, I put this all on TC - "since this is an out-of-state property, kindly advise the following:" and list your questions about witnesses, ink etc etc

And I don't schedule until all of the questions are answered. I most definitely wouldn't go until I had answers. This is all up to title to make sure proper instructions are given so they have a properly signed loan package.

JMO