Posted by Luckydog on 2/3/12 7:10pm
Msg #410802

Notarizing wills or trusts, like advice

Would like an opinion...since reading a few articles on here about notarizing wills and trusts, most notaries are uncomfortable about doing so, as they are the most contested in court and as a notary could be called into court if needed. (that had never crossed my mind)

I am in Florida and recently notarized for an out-of-state attorney (NY). It really got me thinking if I should have now, or if I may have gotten in into a predicament down the road. The attorney was present, had all the document, his 2 witnesses, and I was there to notarize his paperwork. It was an elderly man, and everything seemed in order, and since the attorney was there, did not read his docs, just notarized them, and had witnesses witness. Everyone seemed happy.

Later that day, I also notarized some documents for him regarding another, unrelated client of his who had paperwork to file in a NY court contesting a family member's Will she felt entitlement to. (her family member basically took all the money from the will and spent it) He need her signature notarized and witnessed to get a court date to freeze assets.

Anyway, he recently called again, and now wants me to do some more work for him with the same 2 people, but he cannot make it down to Florida this time. When I talked to him, I said sure, no problem, not thinking this over and reading now what I have heard about the risks. It was pretty easy cash money. Now I am really having second thoughts, but have not told him yet of my concerns. I am sure if I mention my concerns, and if I do, he will probably dismiss them so I will continue working with him.

Should I do more work for him/ is this risky? If there is any gray area, I will decline, because I have a clean notary record, and LOVE what I do in closings and structured settlements, and am busy enough not to mess with these things if I do not need to.

Any advice?
Thanks

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 2/3/12 7:16pm
Msg #410804

As notaries we are not concerned about the contents of the docs - we are notarizing the signature of the signers who appear before us.
But remember FL law allows us to refuse to notarize if we feel uncomfortable.
So, if you are not comfortable with the request you can turn it down.

Reply by Luckydog on 2/3/12 7:23pm
Msg #410806

Thanks...I really do not want to be called into a court proceeding down the road, because someone contested the will, or the person who is contesting a will.
Appreciate the advice!

Reply by HisHughness on 2/3/12 8:20pm
Msg #410814

You may want to forego doing any closings, too

There is a chance that there may be an automobile accident on your way to a signing, and you would be called into court as a witness. Makes sense to me if whether there is a chance or possibility or contingency or happenstace or hazard of that hapening is a preeminent reason to accept or decline an assignment.

Aside from the fact that being called as a witness in a lawsuit is a greatly different matter than being named a party to a lawsuit, it seems to me that being a professional witness to the execution of documents just carries with it the possibility that the witnessing may sometimes be required beyond the actual signing venue.

Reply by Luckydog on 2/4/12 6:31am
Msg #410842

Re: You may want to forego doing any closings, too

I wasn't a wittiness, I am notarizing the attorney's paperwork. If a lawsuit would arise, I could be called in as the notary. I believe the attorney would be called to question, but wanted to be sure if anyone had been in that situation before. I have read in the past that notaries do not like to witness the Trusts because of the liability they face that they may have to appear in court if someone contests the trust.

Reply by Luckydog on 2/4/12 6:33am
Msg #410843

Re: You may want to forego doing any closings, too

Sorry Witness* Spell check flipped it to "wittiness". Too early here.

Reply by ikando on 2/4/12 9:58am
Msg #410856

Re: You may want to forego doing any closings, too

"I wasn't a wittiness, I am notarizing the attorney's paperwork. If a lawsuit would arise, I could be called in as the notary."

Yes, you ARE a witness, identifying the signer and notarizing his signature and not the "attorney's paperwork." If you keep in mind the good advice of the other posters, you will probably never have contact with the court system over something you've notarized.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/3/12 7:51pm
Msg #410810

I keep hearing the same thing when it comes to these

important legal documents, but I don't quite understand the fear of being pulled into court if a Will is contested.
The notary serves only one role--to witness the signature of whomever is signing the document. IMO, the most that could be required of a notary would be to testify (probably through deposition) that the person appeared before you & signed the document. It's content, ramifications, etc. are none of our concern.
Here in VA we can refuse to notarize if we choose to.
BTW, I've done many POA's, etc., and follow the usually cautionary measures--whether or not the person is signing of their own free will, etc. I'm also careful not to cross the line into UPL by advising them in anyway. I don't prepare or provide the documents, and am not responsible for their content or validity in any way. My .02

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/3/12 10:18pm
Msg #410822

Hi, Luckydog - I'll add that from personal experience over

these years, I've had calls from attorneys representing all manner of clients. Some just confirmed my journal entry for such and such; some wanted a description of my role as a 'signing agent;' and on one occasion, I faxed a single journal entry (redacted, of course.)

If we are indeed doing our jobs, what is the fear? Personally, I don't consider doing my job "messing" with legal "things." Notarize, don't analyze, as the saying goes.

I would much rather prove my work than have to justify denying a public need for my appointed service of duty.

jmnsho

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/4/12 1:37am
Msg #410835

I agree with all the other comments so far. The types of things you are talking about kind of go with the territory of what we do. I think if someone is overly concerned about it, they should reconsider being a notary. If there is some issue, gut feeling, circumstance, etc. that makes your red flags go up, then by all means don't do it. But just because the request comes from an attorney shouldn't be an issue. I have a few regular attorney clients that have been using my services for many years now and so far, I've not had any issues.

Some of what you've read here may be because in some states - at least in California - it's not the norm for a will to be notarized at all, just witnessed. I have no idea if that's the case in your state. But if you eliminate any of this type of work, you're cutting yourself out of a potentially good source of business.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/4/12 3:11am
Msg #410837

OK, after reading some of the other posts about how things are done in other states, I take back part of my post. Always best to listen to what people from your own state are saying - but don't assume that it will always be right. However, if you're lucky enough to get Sylvia's advice, you will be hearing from someone who knows what she's talking about!

[Sylvia, so nice to hear happy news - on all counts! And yes, please do stay out of hospital! ]

Reply by Luckydog on 2/4/12 6:23am
Msg #410840

Appreciate all of the advice. Truthfully, that thought never crossed my mind until I had read of some notaries refusing to notarize Wills and Trusts, as they were the #1 cause for testifying in court. I have done a few in the past with no problems, but I just did not want to be pushing my luck if they ever were contested, especially since these were out-of-state.
Thanks again for everyone's imput!

Reply by Luckydog on 2/4/12 6:24am
Msg #410841

Appreciate all of the advice. Truthfully, that thought never crossed my mind until I had read of some notaries refusing to notarize Wills and Trusts, as they were the #1 cause for testifying in court. I have done a few in the past with no problems, but I just did not want to be pushing my luck if they ever were contested, especially since these were out-of-state.
Thanks again for everyone's input!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/4/12 8:15am
Msg #410846

Lucky, you have to realize that any time you put

pen to paper and seal to cert, if that transaction, no matter what it is, is ever called into dispute for ANY reason, you can be called to testify.

Just simply do your job - identify, make sure they know what they're doing, have them acknowledge or swear, complete your certs correctly, don't backdate or forward-date and keep a journal (though not required, highly recommended) - do it by the book and even if you're called in to testify, unless you've bent the rules or broken the law somehow you'll be fine.

In your case with the attorney I'd not hesitate to do the job for him - he's proven himself and his ability to you twice previously - just because he can't make the trip down here this time doesn't change it - I'd gladly help him out, in fact I'd jump on any will or document notarization that's prepared and vetted by an attorney. Maybe you'll feel more comfortable having him on the phone while you go through the process.

If you truly have this deep concern about getting involved in the legal stuff (which just about everything we notarize is legal stuff) then I'd respectfully suggest you rethink being a notary - cuz you CAN'T stay out of the legal stuff. Otherwise, just relax, follow the law and the book and you'll be fine.

JMO

Reply by LKT/CA on 2/4/12 12:46pm
Msg #410870

7 Star Post, Linda H n/m