Posted by Keys_Notary on 2/22/12 1:39pm
Msg #412634

$10.00 (TEN) closing anyone?

Received a call yesterday requesting I come notarize 'a few papers'. Asked a few questions, quoted per notarization & travel fee, it turns out it was a closing. The title company had mailed (not overnight) docs to borrower, told her to call me to come out (as I had worked with them previously) and I would do it for $10.00 TOTAL. I explained my 'signing fee' or per doc fee & travel. She insisted that's not what title said, also all docs were to be 'post dated by them and the notary so it would match up when they got them back, so they had already signed & dated, all I need to do was sign & stamp. I turned her down flat. About an hour later the t/c called and proceeded to tell me it is perfectly legal to do such & they would report me to the state as a public official I must do it & only charge $10 in total. I gave them the contact info for the Governors office, notary division & asked they not ever call me again. Just wish I had found out who the lender was so I could let their compliance know what was happening.

Reply by Barb25 on 2/22/12 2:22pm
Msg #412640

Amazing...Should tell them fine. Show you this "law" and not only will you do it you will give them the $10.00.

Reply by jba/fl on 2/22/12 2:28pm
Msg #412641

That is funny Barb - love the response.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/22/12 2:36pm
Msg #412644

Was it Florida property? If so, you have the borrowers'

names - watch the county records for the recording.

I'm curious who the tc was..

Reply by MW/VA on 2/22/12 2:53pm
Msg #412649

First part sounds like a WF mail-away pkg. There are not costs, so the borrowers are told to find a notary. My experience has been that they're not prepared to pay the fee, since it's usually included in the closing costs. I quote a NSA fee or a GNW fee w/travel.
Where they got the idea that it would cost $10 is beyond me, and that the tc would take that stand is unbelievable. How did they end up handling it? (curious)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/22/12 10:10pm
Msg #412669

As I was reading the OP, I was thinking that this must be some kind of misunderstanding by the borrowers. When I read what the tc said, I was flabbergasted! I think the tc should be reported to someone! What they were asking for with the backdating would be a misdemeanor in my state. Unbelievable!

Reply by Karla/OR on 2/22/12 8:27pm
Msg #412664

I LOVE how you handled this Carol!!! Great job!!! n/m

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/22/12 11:00pm
Msg #412682

OMG Carol. To quote a great movie, I believe what we have

here is a failure to communicate.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/23/12 12:26am
Msg #412690

Re: OMG Carol. To quote a great movie, I believe what we have

It's kinda hard to figure out exactly what's going on here, but do you think TC was telling the borrower you would charge $10 per notarization (which, I understand, is what FL allows)? Borrower probably heard what she wanted to hear. I don't know anybody who goes to anybody's house and does anything for $10. Even the Girl Scouts charge more than that for their cookies. How cheap can some people get?

<<...so they had already signed & dated, all I need to do was sign & stamp.>>

Nothing wrong with that, as long as you dated your notarial certificates for the day they appeared before you.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/23/12 2:08am
Msg #412694

As to your second point, GG, as I understood the post,

Notaricing the forward dated sigs constitute an error.

Notarizing before the fact is a classic no-no.

Jmnsho.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/23/12 11:19am
Msg #412743

Re: As to your second point, GG, as I understood the post,

Hi, Susan: I don't care what date the lender told the borrowers to date the docs - forward backward inside out. Doesn't matter to me. I am not the date police. The only thing that matters is that my notarial certificates reflect the day the person appeared before me.

I understood from OP that for some reason the docs were already dated and signed. So if it were me, when I got to the borrowers (but not for $10!), I'd ask them if that was their signature on the deed, on the compliance agreement, etc. If they said yes, I'd notarize those docs for the day I was there. (In CA if there happened to be a jurat in there, there are extra steps, but that's another story).

Now, if I were walking into a situation cold and found the mess described above by the OP, I'd be calling my hiring agency. But the OP said all of this signing and dating stuff had already been settled between borrower and lender, and the TC was obviously in on it, as well. So if they've already signed with one date, then the the lender must know the notarial certificate will reflect another date (they may be hoping the notary would fudge the date on the notarial certificate, of course, but LOL.), In any case, how the lender wants to handle all the differrent dates is up to them, not my concern, at least in this instance.

Reply by desktopfull on 2/23/12 11:24am
Msg #412744

Re: As to your second point, GG, as I understood the post,

In Florida, the person must sign in front of the notary. The OP also stated that the notarial portion was to be dated as the date on the docs, not the date of the notarization, can't do that either.

Reply by jba/fl on 2/23/12 1:56pm
Msg #412764

Re: As to your second point, GG, as I understood the post,

In Florida, the person must appear in front of the notary. The person would have to sign in front of notary if a jurat, not ack.

Reply by Barb25 on 2/23/12 5:19pm
Msg #412791

Re: As to your second point, GG, as I understood the post,

Good for you..

Reply by desktopfull on 2/23/12 9:45pm
Msg #412833

Re: As to your second point, GG, as I understood the post,

Guess we are both wrong. After reviewing Pg. 12 of the Governor's manual "The signer personally appears before you to swear (or affirm) to you, an officer duly appointed to administer oaths, that the information contained in the document is true. A notarization requiring an oath begins with the administration of an oath or affirmation. The courts have held that there should be a verbal exchange between the notary and the document signer in which the signer indicates that he or she is taking an oath. An oath similar to one administered in court by a judge or bailiff would be sufficient. Or, you may simply ask, “Do you swear (or affirm) that the information contained in this document is true?” After receiving an affirmative answer, you must complete a proper notarial certificate indicating that an oath or affirmation was taken."

It would appear that on a jurat they just have to affirm the info in doc is true, and on an acknowledgement that they did sign the doc. Sorry I was incorrect on my original post. Time to review the manual.

Reply by jba/fl on 2/23/12 11:24pm
Msg #412841

Re: As to your second point, GG, as I understood the post,

"In Florida, the person must appear in front of the notary. The person would have to sign in front of notary if a jurat, not ack."

How am I wrong? All persons must appear in front of me, the notary. If there is to be an acknowledgement, then they may sign before appearing and acknowledge that they did sign the document. (page 12, Governor's Reference Manual for Notaries, the paragraph above the one you partially quoted: To take an acknowledgement, the document signer must personally appear before you, the notary public, and declare that he or she has signed the document voluntarily.....You may want to ask the signer, "Do you acknowledge that this is your signature and that you are executing this document of your own free will?") I still have to identify them per their photo id, so I could see that the signatures have a reasonable match and that the photo appears to be the person in front of me.

If they are to swear or affirm, then a jurat will be attached, and they will be administered an oath that the contents are, to the best of their knowledge, true and correct. Same id process and they must sign in front of me as they must swear or affirm prior to signing the document.

Page 12: "If the document you are asked to notarize contains a prepared notarial certificate, look for the key words "acknowledged" or "sworn to" to tell you which notarial act is required."

Your last paragraph is correct.