Posted by Les_CO on 7/1/12 12:55pm
Msg #425280

Professional revisited


As I’ve said before here, and on other forums I don’t think an attorney that is also a signing agent is any more ‘professional’ than a good, knowledgeable ‘Notary Signing Agent’. And unless an attorney is hired by the signing party to review the documents and advise the signer, we do exactly the same job. My business partner for over 10 years was not only a licensed Colorado real estate broker, and a commissioned notary, but also a member of the bar, and practicing real estate attorney. We both presented closings in an identical manner. We both attend continuing education yearly; keep current on notarial, finance, and regulatory laws here and elsewhere that may concern our jobs. We are both licensed, commissioned and insured. We are both professional. That is not to say that some newly commissioned notary, that us unfamiliar with the documents, their meaning and their effect, can do this job properly. I say the same of most lawyers not specializing in real estate law. Of the over 200 lawyers in the US congress, or those now occupying the White House, I’d bet that NONE of them could properly present a closing package to the signers. I do think that Nancy Pelosi could be a pretty good “point&sign” agent, she’d just say “Sign this now, and read it later!” Just My Opinion

Reply by HisHughness on 7/1/12 1:13pm
Msg #425282

***I do think that Nancy Pelosi could be a pretty good “point&sign” agent, she’d just say “Sign this now, and read it later!”***

Yeah, that would work if she was talking to those on her side of the aisle, where they <can> read.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/1/12 2:11pm
Msg #425290

Good to hear from an actual attorney and a NSA professional!!
Much as I hate to I have to agree with Hugh. I believe that most democrats can actually read, including the most left leaning. My problem is not with the ability to read, it’s the comprehension that concerns me.

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/1/12 2:36pm
Msg #425296

<<<As I’ve said before here, and on other forums I don’t think an attorney that is also a signing agent is any more ‘professional’ than a good, knowledgeable ‘Notary Signing Agent’.......Of the over 200 lawyers in the US congress, or those now occupying the White House, I’d bet that NONE of them could properly present a closing package to the signers.>>>

Completely agree, Les. Put another way: People do well in what they know, have passion for, have experience in, and are trained in. I've completed signings for very learned professionals - and I've learned that they know their craft but not the loan package. Case in point: I notarized for a nuclear physicist. I was so fascinated by her profession, I asked her a few questions and she was delighted to share details about her studies. However, when it came to the loan signing, she admitted she didn't know much about the docs. Had that same experience with a psychiatrist - knew psychiatry, didn't know much about the loan docs. I did GNW or a cryogenic scientist - same story.

It can also be said that people may not know a particular subject because they simply aren't interested and don't want to take the time and effort learning that subject. JMHO

Reply by snowflake/PA on 7/1/12 5:34pm
Msg #425316

I also agree with Les. I have a strong real estate background, and was a real estate paralegal. I close for a builder and routinely an attorney will be involved. The attorney presents the docs to the purchaser in the same manner I would. And, I had one attorney who didn't know where to have the purchasers sign the VA Addendum! I had to advise the attorney.

Reply by ArtG/KS on 7/2/12 9:23am
Msg #425363

Im only a lowly real estate licensee in KS.
At signings, politics are NEVER brought up. Its one of the worse things you could do.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/2/12 1:49pm
Msg #425389

Agreed! Probably not a good idea on this board either….but politics aside I thought it was a good comparison. We have many in congress that are attorneys, that does not make them good congressmen. Just as all attorneys and all notaries may not be good NSA’s.

Reply by SharonMN on 7/2/12 9:48am
Msg #425367

I agree that an attorney and a good signing agent probably do the job about the same. However, I think an attorney that has never seen a set of closing documents before in their life will likely do a much better job than a garden-variety notary with no experience with closing docs. I'm a paralegal and was well used to quickly reading and summarizing complex documents (and explaining to executives why they should sign them) before I became a signing agent - it was extremely helpful experience.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/2/12 12:16pm
Msg #425386

I would agree that most attorneys at some time took a ‘contract law’ and maybe even a ‘real estate law’ course that would help them understand the documents better that some tribesman from the deep Amazon Jungle. I was trying to compare the professionalism of a knowledgeable Notary Signing Agent, to that of an attorney acting as a signing agent presenting closings.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/2/12 2:30pm
Msg #425395

Seems to me that's just common sense. For example, I wouldn't expect a Gastroenterologist to be an expert at brain surgery. Similarly, you wouldn't want to hire an attorney who specializes in medical malpractice for an issue that should be handled by one who specializes in real estate law. Just like with physicians, there are different areas of specialization in the legal field - and many others. Just because someone has a particular title doesn't mean they know everything there is to know that's related to their field. But like some have said, their overall background will likely put them way ahead of those who don't have that foundation of basics.

Reply by Clem/CA on 7/2/12 3:07pm
Msg #425397

"I wouldn't expect a Gastroenterologist to be an expert at brain surgery"

As that could lead to Brain Farts

Reply by Deborah Breedlove on 7/2/12 5:35pm
Msg #425406

Well done, Clem..... n/m

Reply by Notary1/CO on 7/2/12 6:21pm
Msg #425409

The attorney may understand the legal documents better, but few attorneys know notary laws, unless they are also notaries. There are 200 law schools in the USA, about 10 of them have courses on notary law. Notary law is not taught in law school.

The attorney may spend time drafting a good legal document and then attach a defective notary certificate that they cut and paste from somewhere, maybe from another state with different notary laws. Another common defect is an affidavit with an acknowledgment attached.

Some law firms train employees to look for defective notary certificates on documents used in court cases. If they find a defect, to help win their case, they may ask the court to toss out the document as evidence since the notarization is defective.

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/2/12 6:38pm
Msg #425412

Completely agree, Notary1/CO

Very well stated.

Reply by Notary1/CO on 7/2/12 8:03pm
Msg #425415

Re: Completely agree, Notary1/CO

I'm not an attorney, and never attended Harvard Law School, but years ago I used to live outside of Boston. On Friday nights, I would often drive by Harvard University on my way to meet some friends in Boston for a few beers at a popular bar.

So, while some smart law school students went to Harvard and passed the bar, I passed Harvard and went to the bar, (and I saved lots of money on college tuition).

Now, years later, I am a notary and a notary training instructor. I teach notary law and procedure to many students, including private classes for banks, lawyers and law firms.