Posted by TacomaBoy on 7/18/12 3:38am
Msg #427241

Washington Notary, notarizing California docs?

OK, So, I'm a Washington Notary signing doc's in Washington with a Washington resident for a R/E loan domiciled in California which is secured by a California property.

I intend to correct the Notary Acknowledgement location from State of California, County of Solano at the top to read: State of Washington, County of Pierce in accordance with Washington Notary law.

However, the sentence at the end of the Acknowledgement tends to bug me also: ("I certify under PENALTY OF PERJURY under the laws of the State of California that the forgoing paragraph is true and correct.") After all, I AM A WASHINGTON STATE NOTARY subject to Washington notary laws.

Q. Should I also correct the above "State of California" to read: State of Washington?
Any help and/or comments would be appreciated.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/18/12 3:56am
Msg #427242

I'm in CA, so I can't tell you what to do, but if our positions were reversed, I'd probably either change the whole thing to match WA ack requirements, or I'd change it to read "WA" vs. "CA". Clearly your obligations are to the laws of the state of Washington, not California.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/18/12 5:27am
Msg #427245

Here in FL when I get those acks I (a) make everything State of Florida, County of <wherever I am>; and (b) line through and initial the "under penalty of perjury" clause - it's not a required element of our certs here in FL. I see it added to preprinted certs a lot, even those coming out of companies located within Florida, so I firmly believe someone saw that language and said "ooooo, I like that! Let's add that!"

Reply by VT_Syrup on 7/18/12 6:33am
Msg #427248

We know that notaries administer affirmations to others using words very similar to "solemnly affirmed under the pains and penalties of perjury." We know that regular folks routinely make written statements involving similar wording that do not have to be notarized. So suppose a person came to me, signed a document with the words "I certify under PENALTY OF PERJURY under the laws of the State of Vermont that the foregoing paragraph is true and correct." and repeated the phrase orally. The signer wants me to notarize it as equivalent to an oath or affirmation. Is it? I don't know.

So if I make the same statement in an acknowledgement certificate, have I just administered an affirmation to myself in my capacity as a notary? I'm not sure. Of course, in California, even if those words are equivalent to an oath or affirmation, the California notary can and must use those words because the law says so. I'm not sure it's OK in other states.

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/18/12 7:00am
Msg #427250

Long, but works every time. This is the law.

I cross it out & initial. Some will argue in which case I include or send 'em the following. NOTE THAT ITALICS & BOLD DO NOT SHOW ON NR POSTS, BUT 2 b is the appropriate clause.


"The CA ‘under penalty of perjury’ clause is not applicable in my state as (fill in your state) has no such law/statute/code. For those who think it should be completed—disregarding (your state) law--I refer you to the following authorities:

Excerpt from the United States Constitution:
Article 4, Section 1
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records,and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

And…

California’s own Law on the subject of out-of-state notarization.
(2) (b) Note italicized & boldfaced portion:
Civil Code § 1189.
(a) (1) Any certificate of acknowledgment taken within this state shall be in the following form:

State of California
County of __________

On ______________________________________________ before me,
(here insert name and title of the officer) ,
personally appeared __________________________________ _ , who proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence to be the person(s) whose name(s) is/are subscribed to the within instrument and acknowledged to me that he/she/they executed the same in his/her/their authorized capacity(ies), and that by his/her/their signature(s) on the instrument the person(s), or the entity upon behalf of which the person(s) acted, executed the instrument.
I certify under PENALTY OF PERJURY under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing paragraph is true and correct.

WITNESS my hand and official seal.
Signature ____________________________________________ (Seal)

(2) A notary public who willfully states as true any material fact that he or she knows to be false shall be subject to a civil penalty not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000). An action to impose a civil penalty under this subdivision may be brought by the Secretary of State in an administrative proceeding or any public prosecutor in superior court, and shall be enforced as a civil judgment. A public prosecutor shall inform the secretary of any civil penalty imposed under this section.

(b) Any certificate of acknowledgment taken in another place shall be sufficient in this state if it is taken in accordance with the laws of the place where the acknowledgment is made.

(c) On documents to be filed in another state or jurisdiction of the United States, a California notary public may complete any acknowledgment form as may be required in that other state or jurisdiction on a document, provided the form does not require the notary to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity or to make other determinations and certifications not allowed by California law.

(d) An acknowledgment provided prior to January 1, 1993, and conforming to applicable provisions of former Sections 1189, 1190, 1190a, 1190.1, 1191, and 1192, as repealed by Chapter 335 of the Statutes of 1990, shall have the same force and effect as if those sections had not been repealed."

Reply by Buddy Young on 7/18/12 9:09am
Msg #427255

You have to use Washingtons acknowlegments.

I don't know of any state that will not take an ack from another state.

I don't cross out anything, I had a TC chew me out once for writing on their docs. " don't you know how to handle loan docs?" So I had a stamp made that say's " California Compliant Certificate Attached."

I also did a Washington property once here in California. The TC told me that I would use Washington's ack's . I replyed " no I won't, unless you can show me written proof that the property will not record unless I do." That's the only reason we can use out of state ack's here in California, and it probably holds true for all the other states as well.

Reply by MW/VA on 7/18/12 9:33am
Msg #427256

I've done many signings for CA properties. I change the

venue for the notarial certificate, but leave that "under penalty of perjury" statement alone.
IMO it's not that big a deal. It would probably be perjury in any state to make false statements, but CA, being what it is, feels a need to add it to their language. From reading this board, IMO it could be a recording issue to strike it out, so I don't.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 7/18/12 9:55am
Msg #427258

Strikeout causing California recorder to reject document?

MW/VA says "IMO it could be a recording issue to strike [the perjury clause in the acknowledgement certificate] out, so I don't." Since I too receive these California acknowledgements, I would like to know if anyone has seen a recorder reject a document when the document was notarized out of state and, in the acknowledgement certificate the venue was struck out and corrected, or the perjury clause was struck out. I'm sure there are people in title companies or lenders who don't want any changes to anything, but has anyone seen the recorder reject these documents?

Reply by HisHughness on 7/18/12 10:19am
Msg #427260

Don't want any headaches

As the commericial trills, "I haven't got time for the pain."

I just don't use the California-compliant certs; instead, I substitute a Texas cert. Someone has a problem with that, I'll just direct them to the "full faith and credit" provision of the United States Constitution.

I am not going to submit myself to California law, which is what the certificate requires. Somebody wants to sue me for lying, they'll have to do it under Texas law. Though, to be candid, I'd probably be better off if Left Coast law was used. California seems to be far more flexible about what truth is than the other 49 states.

Reply by Karla/WA on 7/18/12 10:51am
Msg #427266

Re:I cross out any reference to CA and change to WA....

I make the changes on the acknowledgement provided but change to WA and the county where you're signing. Remember to initial the changes you've made. I've never had a TC/lender send it back.

Reply by pat/WA on 7/18/12 11:17am
Msg #427269

Re: Re:I cross out any reference to CA and change to WA.... n/m

Reply by pat/WA on 7/18/12 11:19am
Msg #427270

Re: Re:I cross out any reference to CA and change to WA....

If the only problem is the venue on the acknowledgement, I line through and change the state and county and intial the change.
If there is a problem with the stipulations in the body of the acknowledgent. I attach a loose WA acknowledge.

Reply by HisHughness on 7/18/12 11:56am
Msg #427275

Why on earth would you voluntarily ...

... subject yourself to greater liability than required? California law <requires> that wording at the end of a certificate; neither Washington nor Oregon law requires it. You have no obligation to me, but based on your handling of the California notary certificate, I gather I could persuade you to voluntarily send me $20 a month.

Reply by Patti Corcoran on 7/18/12 1:01pm
Msg #427281

Re: I've done many signings for CA properties. I change the n/m

Reply by Patti Corcoran on 7/18/12 1:03pm
Msg #427282

Re: sorry for the last empty post, hit " post" too quickly

I agree with M/VA. I change the venue but not that sentence. Never had one come back.

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/18/12 7:40pm
Msg #427338

Too many strike-thru's on an ack/jurat looks sloppy and unprofessional - particularly lining thru the entire "penalty of perjury" sentence. Notaries of ANY state should draft compliant notarial certs for their state, complete that one and just write "See attached (your state) compliant ack (or jurat).

CA notaries must remember that even though we can complete a notarial cert for a doc filed in another state, THAT notarial cert must be compliant for THAT state (and not require CA notaries to violate laws of CA). Are you, CA notary, going to research that other state's notarial verbiage to ensure you're completing compliant certs? If you don't then you're in violation of CA law that says you must.

Unless I get the request in writing - to use the other state's ack/jurat - I complete and attach CA compliant certs. This ensures that an out-of-state transaction cannot fall apart (from the notary's standpoint) because the cert wasn't compliant for the other state. It may fall apart for other reasons but not because of MY notarizations.