Posted by HisHughness on 6/29/12 6:35pm
Msg #425134

For newcomers visiting here

This is NOT a training forum for notaries public. You need to get your training elsewhere. This is not the place to seek answers to such fundamental questions as which end of the stamp to apply to paper, the difference between a grand jurat and a petite jurat, and whether swearing at a borrower is the same as swearing in a borrower.

This is a forum for professional notaries, the great majority of whom are well past seeking answers to the above questions. If you need those answers, your best resource would be to get in touch with the individual or organization that trained you. If you don't have such an organization or indiividual, then you need first to seek such a resource, and THEN, after receiving the training, pose the questions to them.

Another alterntive that has proved invaluable to countless beginners, trained or not, is simply to come here as often as possible and read as long as you can -- but keep your fingers off the keyboard. More likely than not, if you wish to continue as a notary and especially if you wish to be a signing agent, lurking here for a while will motivate you to seek training if you have not done so already.

Whatever you do, though, please do keep in mind: THIS IS NOT A TRAINING FORUM. You treat it as one at the risk of getting badly singed.

Reply by docs1954CA on 6/29/12 6:37pm
Msg #425135

In one ear and out the other..... n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/29/12 7:12pm
Msg #425147

But worth a shot. Well said, Hugh! n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 6/29/12 9:35pm
Msg #425161

Ditto! n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 6/29/12 8:03pm
Msg #425153

Thanks, Hugh. I think we respond in the interests of

trying to protect this industry from idiots!

Reply by VT_Syrup on 6/30/12 6:16am
Msg #425172

Profession? n/m

Reply by VT_Syrup on 6/30/12 6:33am
Msg #425173

Profession?

The relevant definition in my American Heritage Dictionary 3rd ed. for profession is "An occupation requiring considerable training and specialized study: (start italics) the professions of law, medicine, and engineering. (end italics)" I'd call lawyers, some bankers, and real estate agents professionals. Perhaps court reporters. Paralegals are paraprofessionals. Notaries are businessmen/businesswomen, but don't really qualify as a profession. My personal definition of a professional is that when a paraprofessional or non-professional has a question, is there a recognized superior, in terms of licensure or general recognition, who should be asked. A paralegal asks a lawyer (and so does a notary). An electrician asks an electrical engineer. A nurse asks a physician. But lawyers, physicians, accountants, and other professionals don't ask people legally recognized as having superior skill, they ask peers, because they are at the top of the heap. So they're professionals.

The contrary argument would be that although lawyers are recognized in the law as knowing more about the law in general than notaries, including notarial law, in actual fact the notaries who hang about this forum are often more knowledgeable than some lawyers about certain aspects of notarization, and we often get better answers from our peers than from lawyers. Even the former deputy secretary of state and attorney who presented at the recent Vermont notary forum in Rutland acknowledged that lawyers aren't always well-informed about notarization, and that he learned some things as he prepared his presentation.

Reply by HisHughness on 6/30/12 7:55am
Msg #425174

Re: Profession?

***lawyers, physicians, accountants, and other professionals don't ask people legally recognized as having superior skill, they ask peers***

Don't kid yourself, Gerard. Every lawyer knows who the <real> expert is in his office. It's his secretary.

As far as notaries, any full-time notary on this forum could cite rings around virtually any lawyer except those who do real estate closings, and the only reason <they> know anything about the laws under which notaries operate is that the title companies they serve require them to do so, just like us plain ole signing agents.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 6/30/12 8:38am
Msg #425179

Re: Profession?

"As far as notaries, any full-time notary on this forum could cite rings around virtually any lawyer except those who do real estate closings, and the only reason <they> know anything about the laws under which notaries operate is that the title companies they serve require them to do so, just like us plain ole signing agents."

True, up to a point. But we know packages sometime have to go back to be redrafted, and non-lawyer notaries can't do that part.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/30/12 6:46pm
Msg #425237

Re: Profession?

I agree with your comments about lawyers and feel that the definition you've provided is certainly valid. But in all fairness, I think the "relevant" definition(s) may be in the eyes of the beholder. I think one of the most common definitions of "professional" is someone who gets paid for doing what they do vs. someone who is an amateur... Another common definition - and the one I think is most relevant to this site - is someone who has a certain level of expertise at their work.

Here's a whole list of definitions of "professional" copied from Dictionary.com:

"1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.

2. of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies.

3. appropriate to a profession: professional objectivity.

4. engaged in one of the learned professions: A lawyer is a professional person.

5. following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime: a professional golfer.

6. making a business or constant practice of something not properly to be regarded as a business: “A salesman,” he said, “is a professional optimist.”

7. undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain: professional baseball.

8. of or for a professional person or his or her place of business or work: a professional apartment; professional equipment.

9. done by a professional; expert: professional car repairs.

10. a person who belongs to one of the professions, especially one of the learned professions.

11. a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional.

12. an expert player, as of golf or tennis, serving as a teacher, consultant, performer, or contestant; pro.

13. a person who is expert at his or her work: You can tell by her comments that this editor is a real professional."

Just FWIW...

Reply by BrotherOwner on 6/30/12 11:37pm
Msg #425260

Re: Learned professions???

Let's remember, it is the "practice" of medicine, and the "practice" of law, and they are "practicing" on us!
Professional is as professional does. That's my definition. There are "professional " tips/tricks to every occupation. There even people who are a professional dumb***. The sign of a TRUE professional is doing THE RIGHT THING.

Reply by Notary1/CO on 6/30/12 9:53am
Msg #425183

The Rules and Guidelines are posted at the top of the page.

Reply by 101livescan on 6/30/12 2:16pm
Msg #425213

Pearls of wisdom! I couldn't have said this any better than you, Hugh~!

I have a friend who has taken the test three times now, failed twice. Wants to work with me. OMG...

Now, training, I'm not sure how to tell my friend how to proceed. Just basic common sense, to begin with and to read, not post, savor salient tips, keep a personal journal noting all the timesaving hints, how to accept/negotiate your fees, how to confirm with the client, etc.

There are some great, step by step manuals out there, not just mine.

More than anything, you gotta love people, dogs, cats, screeching birds, pet boa, children, cranky sour old men (and women), and inclimate weather, gridlock, bad tempered LOs, people who never get any where on time or don't have their DLs with them...forgot the appt altogether, even tho you confirmed it that morning.

If I get to a signing and the borrowers are smokers, I suggest we meet at starbucks or somewhere where there is fresh air. I absolutely am intolerant of the stinch and the risk to my respiratory system.

A common complaint I hear about SA's is that they do not take control of the signing from beginning to end.

Let the client run the show, and you're wasting your time.

Ranting? I guess. Where there are too few meeting/signing rooms at a title co, and a SA is taking two hours to sign a client for a very simple refi package, my BP soars...