Posted by Shoshana/AZ on 6/15/12 12:52pm
Msg #423630

Last Friday night's ID issue.

I called title Monday to see about what they were going to do. They said they would call the B about rescheduling. I hadn't heard back so I emailed them yesterday. They emailed me back and said they found a (stupid) notary who did the job for them. However, they were going to send me full fee. So, in my book that means that they know I am right.

If you are the PATSY who enabled the TC to record that WD as is, with an incorrect name, please know that I am not going to out you or the TC. You are risking your AZ commission and someday it could come back to bite you!

Reply by VT_Syrup on 6/15/12 1:12pm
Msg #423633

You can GUESS the second notary didn't have satisfactory evidence of Ms. Doe's identity, but you can't be sure. As I understand the situation, Ms. Doe was the grantee on an old warranty deed, and now wants to sell, or perhaps just re-convey so the form of ownership is a little different. When she was named as the grantee, the name used in the deed was Arlene J. Doe, so she wants to use that name, as grantor, throughout the new warranty deed. She has no ID card that is close enough to that name. But if it really is her house, and she really is the person intended by the grantor on that old warranty deed, then she is known by the name Arlene J. Doe, and can really sign under that name if she can convince the notary that she really is known by that name. Who knows her by that name? All the people who searched the real estate records and came across the deed. If she is selling, that might be a good move; once she gets rid of the house, she doesn't need to worry about it. If she is taking ownership under a different form, and the new form includes the name she wants to use (Jane Doe), again, all is well. She could conceivably convince the notary through the notary's personal knowledge of the whole history of the house, or a credible witness who knows the whole history of the house.

What is the chance the title company found a notary with that kind of personal knowledge? Almost nil. What is the chance the notary found a credible witness with that kind of knowledge? Slim. But it isn't impossible.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 6/15/12 1:29pm
Msg #423638

She was NEVER KNOWN as Arlene J. Doe.

At the table she told me that Nobody knows her as Arlene J. Doe. This is a refi. Countrywide and the first notary messed up. Somehow, they convinced her to sign that way!

Reply by VT_Syrup on 6/15/12 2:02pm
Msg #423644

Re: She was NEVER KNOWN as Arlene J. Doe.

She only thinks she was never known as Arlene J. Doe. She signed that way, the deed was in the public records for however many years, so she was known as Arlene J. Doe, for that one specific purpose. But given that it is a refi, it would certainly be smart to get it fixed so it doesn't keep coming up over and over.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/15/12 3:46pm
Msg #423662

I don't care what she was known as or what she wasn't

known as - what she KNOWS she's known as and what does has no idea she's known as - if she can't show me acceptable ID to prove she is who they say she is then I'm not notarizing.

IMO this was a lazy TC who couldn't be bothered to get it fixed and get it right. This should have been tended to last week by the people who know what they're doing - not someone who just did it because (a) title told her to and (b) she's too stupid to know any better.

And Shoshana, you KNOW I don't mean you..

At least you're getting paid...that's a good thing. I, personally, WOULD out both the notary and the TC - ESPECIALLY the TC - they knew or should have known what they were asking was wrong and they took the cheap backward way out of it..

Ugh

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 6/15/12 6:37pm
Msg #423680

Linda, that's the ugly part of our job.

I wish the signer understood what I was saying!

Reply by MW/VA on 6/16/12 5:08pm
Msg #423760

That's when it's frustrating that our hands our tied & we

can't give legal advice. IMO she never should have signed that. I could come back later as fraud, using a "fake" name to obtain credit. Again, IMO, a Quit Claim Deed should have been prepared to correct the name moving forward.
Right or not, at least you knew not to get involved in that. It will be on the other notary for having her sign a name that wasn't substantiated with ID. :-(

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 6/16/12 6:32pm
Msg #423777

I got paid full fee by the way. Got check today.

TC knew I was right! LOL!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/15/12 11:25pm
Msg #423693

"Who knows her by that name? All the people who searched the real estate records and came across the deed."

OK, I'm very tired and just came from a difficult signing ('cause of the people, not the docs - but that's another story...), so maybe I'm missing something. But I don't get how "all the people" who may have seen that name on title can know who that name belongs to without someone presenting valid ID to back it up. They know that *someone* was known by that name, but by itself, it proves nothing. Maybe there's another Arlene in the picture somewhere. (I don't remember the details of the names in question.)

I've run into situations where a guy married a woman with the same name as his sister; I've heard of cousins having the same names; some idiots even name their kids the same! There's all kinds of possibilities. The whole point, I think, is that there needs to be something else connecting the name on a document with a person who presents him or herself as the same person as the one named in that document - especially when dealing with title issues. That's why we check ID in the first place, right?

'Course the odds of those things happening might be somewhere in the same vicinity as the chance of another notary finding a qualified credible witness...

Reply by VT_Syrup on 6/16/12 8:06am
Msg #423708

A person may use any name they please to conduct transactions, including real estate transactions. In some states and some circumstances, this might count as doing business under an assumed name, and one might have to register the name, but not in Arizona, the OP's state:

http://www.sba.gov/content/register-your-fictitious-or-doing-business-dba-name

Among the people who would have repeated this name would be land surveyors, who are required to show the names of owners of properties adjoining a property being surveyed. So name could have been repeated in the record quite a number of times. The name could have been used in all kinds of notices and lawsuits to "Arlene"; she could have been sued of there were toxic waste on her property, or if a neighbor disputed the property boundary. If she thought "that's not my name, I'll ignore this summons" she would have lost the lawsuit. If a neighbor applied for a zoning variance and she ignored it because it wasn't her name, she would have lost the chance to complain about the addition the neighbor was building. The power company would have used that name to notify her when they were spraying herbicide under power lines. So she gave all these folks had a right to call her Arlene when she accepted delivery of the deed, and she would fail to respond to such summons or notices at her peril.

There is always the probability that more than one person has a certain name. All we have to do is determine the Arlene Doe in front of us is AN Arlene Doe, not THE RIGHT Arlene Doe for this transaction. Of course, its hard to do that if the person is using an alias. One good way Arlene could have done this would be to hire the same lawyer/notary to notarize the refi as she used when she bought the property, or have that lawyer appear as a credible witness. But of course it would be even better to correct the record so in the future she could use her usual name.