Posted by VT_Syrup on 6/18/12 11:16am
Msg #423885

Massachusetts: Appear once, sign for 2 years

There is a bill in the Massachusetts legislature:

http://www.malegislature.gov/Bills/187/House/H00495

This bill seems to have been approved by the House and Senate, and I suppose is waiting for the governor's signature. As I read it, it says a signer can go in person and get a "Notary service electronic certificate" from a notary. The signer could then use that certificate to sign documents for two years; a document signed by the signer using the notary service electronic certificate "has the same legal force and effect as if the person appeared before an electronic notary and by oath or affirmation executed an electronic notarial act" even though the notary is not present for, and has no knowledge of, any of the signings after the notary issues the certificate.

Another problem is the section that begins "Electronic notaries public shall perform the following electronic notarial acts when requested..." The problem is, many different technologies could be used for electronic notarization. No one notary will have all the technologies at his/her disposal. So if I go down to MA and ask an electronic notary to perform a notarization with Microsoft Word, but the notary only has Adobe Reader, the notary has violated the law.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/18/12 12:15pm
Msg #423888

I disagree

This is for electronic documents and electronic notarizations - I don't believe it refers to your standard paper notarizations..and it also says.

"(d) Linked to the electronic document to which it relates in a manner so that if the document is changed the electronic signature is invalidated."

A notary in MA who does electronic notarizations MUST have an electronic notary commission and THAT is what the 2-years is about.

No where did I see anything that hinted that someone can go get a certificate from an electronic notary and use it anywhere they want for 2 years. Maybe I missed it.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/18/12 12:16pm
Msg #423889

I'm also questioning the "conveyance of real estate"

portion of this bill - do these legislators not know that MA is an attorney-only state?

Reply by VT_Syrup on 6/18/12 2:02pm
Msg #423902

Re: I'm also questioning the "conveyance of real estate"

The accepted wisdom on this forum seems to be that lawyers are required at closings in MA. But there needs to be a notary too (or after this bill passes, an electronic notary, unless all the signers have electronic notary service certificates). The notary might be the same person as the lawyer.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 6/18/12 1:59pm
Msg #423901

Re: I disagree

Indeed we are taking about a process that only applies to electronic documents; the subject lines in NotRot are short so there isn't room to fit much about the topic on the subject line.

See these passges:

"5. Administer an oath or affirmation that the notary service electronic signature certificate applicant understands the responsibilities and consequences of using a notary service electronic signature certificate to sign a notary service electronic document and that the electronic signature certificate has the same legal force and effect as any notarial act made before a notary public pursuant to article 2 of this chapter."

"2. An electronic notarial service as prescribed by this article for which the person signing appears before an electronic notary and by oath or affirmation acknowledges that any notary service electronic document that is created by the person pursuant to this article has the same legal force and effect as if the person appeared before an electronic notary and by oath or affirmation executed an electronic notarial act."

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/18/12 2:16pm
Msg #423903

Maybe I'm just missing the point when you said

"Appear once, sign for 2 years" and "As I read it, it says a signer can go in person and get a "Notary service electronic certificate" from a notary. The signer could then use that certificate to sign documents for two years;" That's not how I read it.

From what I see, MA is stepping up to approve electronic notarizations on electronic documents, which notarization would be invalidated if the doc were changed; any notary doing an electronic notarization must have an electronic notary commission (a la Virginia) separate from the regular notary commission, and this electronic notary commission is good for two years.

And yes, electronic notarizations on electronic documents are just as legal and binding as your standard paper notarizations. The document has to be identified in the electronic notarization and if the doc is changed the notarization is invalidated (nullifying your statement of "The signer could then use that certificate to sign documents for two years; .... even though the notary is not present for, and has no knowledge of, any of the signings after the notary issues the certificate") I'm still not sure where you saw that information - I didn't read it that way....thus my confusion.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 6/18/12 2:31pm
Msg #423904

Re: Maybe I'm just missing the point when you said

Utah had a proposal similar to this around 14 years ago. The idea is a person goes to a notary, and the notary issues a special digital certificate to the signer, which would expire after 2 years. It would be similar to what you would get from Verisign, Comodo, or Go Daddy, but when the signer uses it, the signature would have the same effect as an acknowledgement or oath (depending on the wording of the document being signed).

I suspect your questions about how an electronic notary is commissioned and how long the commission lasts are answered in existing Massachusetts laws, but the Massachusetts legislature site has decided to get sick, so I can't check that now.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/18/12 2:59pm
Msg #423910

No need to check - that info's right in the bill you posted. n/m

Reply by VT_Syrup on 6/18/12 4:20pm
Msg #423918

Looks like bill is going nowhere

After comparing the bill history with some of the bills that did become law, it looks like this bill hasn't gotten very far. That's a good thing, because it seems to leave out a lot.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/18/12 7:53pm
Msg #423933

Tacking on here...

We need to remain calm and remember that an electronic notarization must be accepted by the intended receiver. If the receiver is not willing to accept it, then it's useless.

Secondly, electronic seals are only worthwhile on documents that are sealed and locked down electronically and remain in an electronic state. Printing one out to look at is okay, but printing it out, making changes, and scanning it back in-- then notarizing it electronically again does not work. The recipient is looking for the first document, not the altered one.