Posted by JulieD/KS on 6/19/12 2:16pm
Msg #423997
My terms
For years now, upon accepting a signing, I respond to the confirmation email with my terms. These terms reiterate my understanding of the job they've hired me to do, and also, clarify my payment terms. I request they respond to the email accepting my terms at which point, I contact the borrower.
The terms are these:
I've received the confirmation for the (type of signing) doc signing for (date) at 7:00pm. Since this is my first signing with you, I need for you to read my terms and respond that you are in agreement. At that point, I will confirm the appointment with (borrower's name).
Our agreed-upon fee is $XXX. This fee covers the signing as well as printing two copies of the doc package, not to exceed XXX pages. If it is over XXX pages, I reserve the right to renegotiate my fee. The fee of $XXX also hinges on receiving the complete and final document package no later than 4 hours prior to the signing appointment (CDT). If docs are not received on time, a $25 late charge will apply.
My fee is due and payable upon funding and will be considered late if not paid within 30 days. I reserve the right to charge interest if payment is received beyond the 30-day time frame.
The fee does not include any special services; the package is not to be faxed in part or entirety. It will be shipped out first thing Friday morning to the address you specify.
If other services are required, please let me know in advance. Additional fees may apply.
My payment terms are in my signature block.
If you agree to my terms, please respond and at that time, I will contact the borrowers.
Thank you so much!
Regards,
Julie B. Dailey, E.A.
Note: This email confirms our fee agreement made by phone and the price quoted is the fee agreed upon by both parties and is not subject to arbitrary reduction or increase by either party. Your invoice will be for the amount we agreed upon, as shown on the confirmation. No exceptions. No Shows will be billed a Trip Fee plus edoc fee (if applicable). No Sign/No Fund all receive full fee. If this is not agreeable with you, please cancel this order immediately before documents are printed.
A new-to-me company responded to this email:
Hi Julie;
I am a little taken back by your email…we hired you, you did not hire us. Had you discussed these additional items at the time that you had accepted the assignment with our terms, no problem, we could have come to an agreement. I am cancelling this Signing Confirmation as your terms are not acceptable to us or our client.
Respectfully
*****************
If they can't accept the very terms they told me on the phone and agreement to pay me, I'm glad that we determined that up front.
I'm sure I'll get some scolding here for my terms, but I think it's smart business to lay it out before taking on an assignment. It weeds out the chaff.
This particular company's ratings run from 2 to 4 stars in SC.
| Reply by HisHughness on 6/19/12 2:28pm
Msg #423999
***we hired you, you did not hire us.***
You did not "hire" me, you asked to contract with me. That requires a meeting of the minds. Our minds haven't met; in fact, they appear to be occupying different offices altogether.
Thank you for thinking of me.
| Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 6/19/12 4:43pm
Msg #424014
At the bottom
I agree. I didn't realize I was "for hire." Hey, if my last name were Spenser, my NSA business could be called "Spenser for Hire."
In any case, I'm surprised you get any jobs with that agreement. You're giving these guys way too much credit. You're thinking that what we do is along the lines of a partnership, that NSAs are just as important in the process as any other involved entity. You are largely mistaken. As one owner of a (good) SS once told me: "Notaries are lower than whale poop."
My observation is it's their way or the highway, which is exactly what happened to you. They don't give a hoot about your demands; they want you to fulfill theirs and be grateful they called --- or be on your way.
Nonetheless, I admire the fact you stick up for yourself and portray yourself as a real professional!
| Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/19/12 2:34pm
Msg #424001
Julie
PAW always sent the following to companies that hired him:
This email confirms our agreement to the price quoted in your confirmation email as the fee agreed upon by both parties and is not subject to arbitrary reduction or increase by either party, without written (or email) notice and agreement by both parties. Your invoice will be for the amount agreed upon. NOTE: "No Show", "Refusal to Sign" or the loan does not fund, for whatever reason, you will be invoiced for the full fee unless the assignment is cancelled prior to 4 hours before the scheduled appointment time. If the appointment is cancelled prior to 4 hours before the scheduled appointment time, and documents have been printed, a $40 print/copy charge will be invoiced. All invoices are due Net/30.
Edocs - If documents are being provided electronically via email and/or download, the file(s) must be received at least three (3) hours prior to the scheduled appointment time or the appointment may need to be rescheduled following other appointments.
If this policy is not agreeable with you, please cancel this order immediately before documents are printed and the appointment confirmed with the clients.
| Reply by ikando on 6/19/12 3:15pm
Msg #424006
I've had this conversation on other site forums. It was pointed out to me that my "confirmation of the confirmation" might cause job cancellations. I agree with both Julie and Hugh. My time is what they're buying, so this is what I send. It's my version of both Julie's and Paul's letters.
****
Thank you for the opportunity to work with you. Because I am an Independent Contractor, following is my standard business response. If you would like to discuss this response based on your business climate, I am open to negotiations.
NOTE: This message confirms our fee agreement of $xxx.00 made by phone.
For that fee, I will print documents, travel to the signer(s), appropriately identify the signer(s), notarize the provided documents, and return the documents as specified by the hiring party. This fee agreement is based on the product to be handled by the notary being what was stated in the phone conversation, no requirement for fax back/email return of signed documents, and my receipt of the final documents no less than two (2) hours before the scheduled signing time.
The amount quoted is the fee agreed upon by both parties. Because my fee is based on my scheduled time, driving distance and document handling, it is NOT subject to arbitrary reduction for No Show, No Sign or No Fund. The fee WILL BE adjusted if the product received is not as stated by the requester. If notary accepts and correctly performs the contracted service, FULL FEE PAYMENT IS REQUIRED. Payment should be made to KANDO ORGANIZATION, and is to be received by notary no later than 30 days after signing date per assignment confirmation, or may be subject to late fee charges and/or costs for collection. If this is not agreeable with you, please cancel this order immediately before I contact the borrower.
****
FWIW, I have had jobs cancelled. But as I've commented on the other sites, if the company that contacted me has "rules" for me to follow, then they should know my expectations from them, and be willing to comply also. If I were an employee, it would be different.
| Reply by JulieD/KS on 6/19/12 3:19pm
Msg #424007
I like it! I might start using yours!
| Reply by C. Wayne Moore on 6/19/12 3:34pm
Msg #424009
Request permission to use your terms verbatim. I like! n/m
| Reply by LKT/CA on 6/19/12 9:32pm
Msg #424046
<<<The fee WILL BE adjusted if the product received is not as stated by the requester.>>>
BINGO!! I think that is key in any terms of service policy. I really like your policy - very clear and very thorough. 10 Stars and a carrot cake for you!!
| Reply by Q_in_Sac/CA on 6/19/12 5:21pm
Msg #424021
Hey Julie, can I use ur verbiage for " my terms"? This is a great template to use to weed out the "riff raff".
| Reply by JulieD/KS on 6/19/12 6:27pm
Msg #424027
Feel free to copy my verbiage verbatim. I think more of us should be giving our terms.
I still think that this particular company was probably offended by my terms because they prefer to be allowed to run roughshod over me.
Ain't gonna happen on my watch. I'd rather be out floating naked in the pool than working for free.
| Reply by Buddy Young on 6/19/12 6:25pm
Msg #424026
As GOLD GIRL said" I'm surprised if you get any jobs with that"
As independant contracters we bid on jobs.
If you have so many clients that you can put forth demands like that, more power to you.
In my opinion you are cutting your own throat. Many SS and TC will see your demands and pass right over you.
| Reply by JulieD/KS on 6/19/12 6:32pm
Msg #424028
It's okay by me, Buddy Young.
If a company doesn't want to hire a professional signing agent who has enough business savvy to have its own company terms, I'm okay with that.
I really don't understand your mindset. It's because of this mindset that companies run roughshod over some of you. (they don't run roughshod over me)
But...you do it your way. I'll do it mine. I'm perfectly okay with a company saying No to my terms
They will then come find someone like you who doesn't set forth what they expect and who will accept whatever they are offered.
| Reply by Buddy Young on 6/19/12 9:30pm
Msg #424045
Julie, I do have my standards, I will not work for lowballers.
I have my price and they either accept it or not.
| Reply by MW/VA on 6/19/12 6:58pm
Msg #424034
That's great, but I can't imagine having the time
to do that. My take is that if I accept an assignment I've agreed to the terms. It's either that or I decline the signing in the first place. I haven't run into too many issues that would require me to go that route, but thanks for sharing it.
| Reply by Dennis_IN on 6/19/12 7:39pm
Msg #424039
Re: That's great, but I can't imagine having the time
Just add the verbage to your signature to your emails. It's easy.
| Reply by MikeC/TX on 6/19/12 7:10pm
Msg #424036
I don't see any problem with your terms...
You're the one who decides how you will do business, and if these are the terms you've decided to operate under, no one else can tell you that you're wrong.
As Hugh said, they didn't hire you - they offered to contract for your services. So many of these companies (and, unfortunately, NSAs as well) are stuck in the "hiring" mode of thought, where the company needing the service gets to dictate what happens with no room for negotiation. If that were true, it could make you their employee rather than an independent contractor - a road they probably don't want to travel.
My question for you is: do you lay out ALL of these terms when you get the scheduling call? If not, I can understand their getting into a snit about it being sprung on them after the fact, but if you told them all this up front, their response indicates they're probably not a company to be trusted - or that they have schedulers who will say "yes" to anything just to get a job booked, which is basically the same thing.
| Reply by jnew on 6/19/12 8:17pm
Msg #424040
I think it is good to inform your customer of your expectations in dealing with them for the first time. Everything would be on the table and each party knows what to expect. Notwithstanding that fact, I have to agree with the post that said that one may have difficulty in the present market attracting business with it. I would think that those contracting with notaries might expect a bit more flexibility on the part of the signing agent. They are looking for signing agents that fit with their policies and if the shoe doesn't fit, they are not eager to wear it. I think using this kind of policy statement might work in the case where the scheduler has not given any company policy statements to the signing agent prior to the job offering. Of course, experience is always the best indication of how you will be treated.
| Reply by panotary1 on 6/19/12 8:36pm
Msg #424043
I'm not 100% on this but I have heard that the person or company being hired are to set the terms. So if they are hiring you, you have every right to set the terms. I'm not entirely sure how all of these companies have gotten in the habit of just putting things out there without an official acceptance of terms by the notary.
| Reply by JulieD/KS on 6/19/12 8:48pm
Msg #424044
As far as laying out the terms in advance on the phone, I verified the stuff that I needed to verify in order to determine my fee. The rest is in my acceptance email (and yes, this is a template...I don't have to type it every time...I just plug in the specific details). It was our very own PAW who told us years ago that in order to charge interest on late payments, it has to be disclosed up front. So, I disclose it. I want them to accept my terms...or hire someone else.
And, in response to her email telling me I should have told her all this on the phone, I responded to her with this:
"And, as far as not bringing this up on the phone, you didn't bring up on the phone that I would be required to log in to a website in order to be paid; nor did you bring up that I must use blue ink, nor did you bring up that I had to get enlarged photocopies of two forms of ID.
These are the details. They come after the offer and acceptance.
For some reason, you find my emailed terms to be offensive...whereas I just find yours to be details."
************
I'm glad this is not longer my source of income. It's far too petty. I like doing taxes. You need me or you don't...but my fees and terms are my fees and terms. Don't like them? Go to a franchise.
| Reply by ikando on 6/19/12 10:11pm
Msg #424048
As Julie has said, I ask questions that are verified in my confirmation. And, as Julie said, the expectations from the contracting party are the details they expect to be followed, which are delivered after the contract has been made. I only reiterate the requirements I expect for them to follow for my payment after accepting the job, often at a compromised fee. If they really don't want to accept my independent contractor terms, they are free to cancel the assignment and find another person to attempt to perform the job when and how they need it done.
Another separate comment I'd like to make with regard to paperwork is that in my contract, I point out the fee I've agreed to on a separate, distinct line. One of my pet peeves is when important information is buried within instructions that should be common practice to perform a professional job. Very often the emails I receive, especially from some SS, have the payment buried in a long paragraph on the second page of instructions. There are a few companies with which I work who are very good at setting out the important information (borrower name, telephone number and address, as well as my fee) in such a way that it is obvious. Others, often those who want to pay less than my regular fee, roll everything into one paragraph, which requires my spending time deciphering in order to do my job correctly. I guess this bothers me so much because I create forms and write contracts in my other business. It's no longer surprising to me the important things that people assume other people will "know".
Thanks for allowing me to vent.
| Reply by FeliseSoCal on 6/20/12 12:22am
Msg #424052
Business is a game of supply and demand...
Right now, the supply exceeds the demand. Your best defense is to use a forum like this one to pick and choose who you will do business with rather than making demands when they can easily replace you.
Although I do agree your terms are in the best interest of the contracted party. I just wish we were in a better position to negotiate those terms without losing business.
Best of luck to all!
| Reply by ABC Legal Docs, LLC - Jerry Lucas on 6/21/12 9:13pm
Msg #424308
Message Deleted
This message has been deleted by a forum moderator.
Reason: Author Request - Special Exception
| Reply by Notary1/CO on 6/22/12 4:26pm
Msg #424373
I post my terms of service and fee schedule on my website. They can be viewed before someone calls me requesting my services. The terms include an implied consent. That means if they call or email requesting my services, they have already agreed to my posted terms and fee schedule. Many websites have terms of use and implied consent agreements for website users and visitors. [For example: look at the bottom of the Notary Rotary web page and you will see Terms of Use posted.]
When accepting an offer to provide requested services, I confirm the agreed to price and state in my email reply that I am accepting the offer subject to the terms and fee schedule posted on my website and include the web link to my terms and fee schedule.
The terms and fee schedule are designed to clarify the rights and duties of both parties and to protect me from dishonest or unethical parties, slow pay or no pay.
The best way to do business is in writing. Spelling out the terms and conditions and fee schedule helps to avoid misunderstandings, confusion and disputes. If you do need to go to court, you can show the court your written terms and fee schedule. You look like a professional business person, not an amateur.
For leverage against dishonest hiring parties from another state, I include a venue clause, that both parties agree and consent that all legal actions will be under the exclusive jurisdiction of courts in my county, my state.
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