Posted by EileenHI on 6/6/12 7:21pm
Msg #422795

POA help quickly

I know how the docs need to be signed for the POA, but how are the acknowledges worded for the poa?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/6/12 7:23pm
Msg #422796

Look in your handbook n/m

Reply by EileenHI on 6/6/12 7:25pm
Msg #422798

Re: Look in your handbook

My handbook says nothing.... I have a call in to the Attorney General, but have not heard back yet. Hawaii has no SOS.

Reply by Buddy Young on 6/6/12 7:25pm
Msg #422797

they should supply the acks. if they don't put an ack and a jurat in proper language for your state in front of them and have them choose which one they want.
You can't choose which one to use unless you are an atourney

Reply by Buddy Young on 6/6/12 7:30pm
Msg #422801

Re: attorney, I can't spell n/m

Reply by Buddy Young on 6/6/12 7:32pm
Msg #422802

Re: Oppps missunderstood n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/6/12 7:28pm
Msg #422799

Handbook, page 12 gives you exact wording to use

http://hawaii.gov/ag/notary/updated_doc_2010/2010_notary_manual.pdf

Note the warning - you must be absolutely sure they have the authority to sign the document.

Reply by EileenHI on 6/6/12 7:34pm
Msg #422803

Re: Handbook, page 12 gives you exact wording to use

Thank you.... probably read that a hundred times and didn't see it.

Reply by SharonMN on 6/7/12 9:57am
Msg #422820

Re: Handbook, page 12 gives you exact wording to use

Wow, I am just amazed that Hawaii requires the notary to verify that the person has the authority to sign as attorney-in-fact. A lot of interpretation can be involved depending on the situation. Seems to me this should be the responsibility of the person who wants the document signed, not the notary.

FROM THE HANDBOOK:
> An acknowledgement of an individual acting by power of attorney should never be notarized unless the notary is completely satisfied that the attorney-in-fact does indeed have the authority to sign the instrument for the individual executing the instrument, and that the power of attorney is in full force and effect.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/7/12 11:17am
Msg #422827

I agree...this is frightening too

"and that the power of attorney is in full force and effect."

How would youdetermine if it had been revoked or not, aside from asking the person, who of course is going to say "No, it's still in effect" cuz they want to get it done.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 6/7/12 12:36pm
Msg #422829

Linda H. - you are always so helpful...thank you. n/m

Reply by Karla/WA on 6/6/12 7:30pm
Msg #422800

Acknowledgment should be:

John Doe (and he signs as his name)

and

Sally Doe, by John Doe, as her attorney in fact

Typically, the POA is included in the package that "Sally Doe" signed giving John Doe the ability to sign on her behalf.

If there are initial pages, you can just sign "SD by JD, AIF" in addition to JD's initials.

Good luck.

Reply by EileenHI on 6/6/12 7:41pm
Msg #422804

It is a mortgage and she is signing for herself and is signing for her husband, currently in the military overseas. The book tells me how to handle with her signing just for him, but I am not sure of the wording to put both in there.

Reply by pat/WA on 6/6/12 7:42pm
Msg #422805

Check with who ever hired you to make sure they are allowed to sign with a power of attorney. They probably will ask you to pick up an original of the POA and submit it with documents. After they record it they will return it to the borrower. Your documents should have POA wording on the signature lines.

I had a daughter try to slip one past me some time ago. She did not have have a power of attorney for her mother. I am convinced that she was trying to take her invalid Mother's property.

Reply by EileenHI on 6/6/12 7:49pm
Msg #422806

It was not presented to me as a POA mortgage. I have talked to the hiring authority, the title company, etc. I will be picking up the POA when she signs. Just not sure on the wording of the acknowledgement.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/6/12 8:00pm
Msg #422807

In the past in my experience...in these situations

I use my state-mandated ack form for a person in a capacity and where the names go in I would put "Jane Doe, individually, and Jane Doe as Attorney-in-Fact for John Doe"...and the ID cited is just for her individually.

That is in my experience in CT and in FL...

Reply by pat/WA on 6/6/12 8:28pm
Msg #422808

Re: In the past in my experience...in these situations

I use a loose acknowledgment that has the Power of attorney wording on it.

Reply by Les_CO on 6/6/12 11:03pm
Msg #422815

Where she signs for him, she signs his name, then she prints/ writes in her hand: by her name as (his) attorney in fact.
In the acknowledgement you print by “her name” as (if you can acknowledge capacity, if not leave it out) attorney in fact for “his name” JMO
Easy! JMO

Reply by Linda Juenger on 6/6/12 11:09pm
Msg #422816

I just had one that had "his agent" as the wording instead

attorney in fact.

Reply by Les_CO on 6/6/12 11:15pm
Msg #422817

Re: I just had one that had "his agent" as the wording instead

Sorry…please remember this POA stuff in State specific…In PA one must use the term “agent” rather than ATF.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/6/12 11:59pm
Msg #422818

Yes, state specific - very important!

For example, in California, we're not allowed to include capacity in our acknowledgments, so I would simply put the name of the person who did actually "personally appear" before me. The fact that she also signed her husband's name is irrelevant. Again, this is state-specific and is probably wrong for other states.

Reply by EileenHI on 6/7/12 12:44pm
Msg #422830

Re: Yes, state specific - very important!

Thanks to everyone for their help. As I was going out the door the AG office finally called me back. They were of very little help.... but I had to get her name and her name signing for her husband all in the ack. We discussed the way I had worded the acknowledgement and they said it would be fine. I had to wonder why the lender did not even indicate that this was a POA signing.... And it was as I was checking the docs before leaving for the appointment that I realized that the acknowledgements would not be correct..... Made for an interesting day.... then the signing.... 3 dogs, 4 cats, lots of animal hair, my finger got clawed by a cat, bo forgot we were signing so wasn't ready at the appointment time, and read EVERY WORD of every doc in the package.... thank goodness it was only 95 pages...

Reply by Karla/WA on 6/7/12 1:04pm
Msg #422832

Re: Yes, state specific - very important!

Typically, the lender or SS doesn't detail the specifics of the signing. By reviewing the docs, that's how we figure it out, so experience is critical!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/7/12 3:03pm
Msg #422844

Re: Yes, state specific - very important!

True, enough, Karla, but a POA signing should be an exception, imo, and most of the times that I've had to do one, they told me up front. The use of a POA for someone on title needs to be approved by the lender in advance, so it shouldn't be a surprise - and it takes a lot more time because of all the extra verbiage that needs to be written by the attorney-in-fact (or agent).

Reply by jba/fl on 6/7/12 3:47pm
Msg #422859

I differ here, Karla

The lender is the one approving the POA and, therefore, should be the one to state how the verbiage will read, word for word. The TC follows lender instructions and the SS may get the exact wording for you if they don't have you call for it. If there are instructions in the package, the issue is usually dealt with in the lender instructions.