Posted by Clem/CA on 6/5/12 1:26am
Msg #422586

Rule#1??

um er ah how about signing in front of you?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billsinger/2012/06/01/notary-duped-into-signing-off-on-insurance-loans-fined-and-suspended-by-finra/

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/5/12 1:40am
Msg #422587

Well... in CA not all notarizations require the person to actually sign in front of you... but they DO require personal appearance, etc. Sadly, this person, like a lot of desk jockey notaries, does this kind of thing all the time in the interest of convenience. They really don't understand that in CA, you can be arrested for some of that.

I'm more interested to learn what the the CA Secretary of State has in store for her... that ought to be a lot worse than $5,000 fine.

I note that her name doesn't appear on the current list of active CA notaries.

Reply by MrEd_Ca on 6/5/12 9:23am
Msg #422604

Would this (the situation described in the article) qualify for a 'Proof of Execution by a Subscribing Witness'? From my quick & still not completely awake reading of this provision in the Calif. Notary Handbook, had the notary taken this route it might well have been a legal notarization.

Reply by RickG/CA on 6/5/12 10:01am
Msg #422612

It had the possiblity however the subscribing withness would have to affirm under oath

* the signers are the principals
* witness the signing or "hear" the principal acknowledge the signature is theirs
* was requested by the principal to sign as a witness

also the subscibing witness is the one in our journal and not the principal

(this of course is the RickG oversimplification)

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/5/12 10:48am
Msg #422619

NOt in this case, no...

At least, I don't think so, based on what I read in the situation. the POEBSW is really quite limited and the process terribly complicated (since it involve a subscribing witness as well as a credible witness known to both the notary and the SW.)

Per CA rules, "A proof of execution by a subscribing witness cannot be used in conjunction with any power of attorney, quitclaim deed, grant deed (other than a trustee’s deed or deed of reconveyance), mortgage, deed of trust, security agreement, or any instrument requiring a notary public to obtain a thumbprint from the party signing the document in the notary public’s journal. (Government Code section 27287 and Civil Code section 1195(b)(1) and (2))"

Would the documents in this case be considered security agreements? I'm not sure we have quite enough information on that.

My guess is that this notary didn't even have a journal entry and just slapped her stamp on the paper because her boss told her to or a friend asked for a favor.

Reply by Luckydog on 6/5/12 4:57pm
Msg #422690

Re: NOt in this case, no...

In FL, you can only notarize a signature if the person is there in the flesh and has proper ID or you know them.