Posted by snoopdogMs on 6/22/12 7:11am
Msg #424322

Woman in the home introduces herself as Mrs. Doe

But all the paper work shows Mr. Doe as unmarried. When I state to Mr. Doe that there might be a problem, Mr. Doe says that they are not married and will be in a few weeks. I closed for this borrower back in 09 and he had just been widowed. The closing was aborted because he was supposed to get a 25 year loan, not a 30 year loan. It will be rescheduled for Monday. Someone appears to be lying about their marriage status. Sometimes borrowers don't want their new spouses on the paperwork. This man is 60 years old.

Reply by MW/VA on 6/22/12 8:07am
Msg #424323

Sorry, but I don't see how this is any of our business, unless her name appears on the docs & she can't produce proper ID.

Reply by PegiT_MN on 6/22/12 9:35pm
Msg #424395

If VA is a spousal state like MN.....then Mrs. Doe signs.

Minnesota is a spousal state, so if I know that there is a Mrs. Doe, it becomes my business. Mrs. Doe has to sign.....it's the law.

Reply by bfnotary on 6/22/12 8:08am
Msg #424324

Well that can be a tough one. Both my husband and I called me his wife, even before we were married. (we were ingaged tho)

Reply by snoopdogMs on 6/22/12 8:13am
Msg #424325

non-borrowering spouses are supposed to sign in MS

Also, I made a statement. The woman said she was Mrs. Doe. Either she is or she is not. To say she is, is a false statement. That is her business if she lies. But one is either married or not. She introduced herself as Mrs. Doe. She could have said, Hi, I'm Jane.

Reply by bfnotary on 6/22/12 8:35am
Msg #424326

Re: non-borrowering spouses are supposed to sign in MS

Pa is a spousal state as well. And I only have the word of the borrower. I am not a private investigator. You never know the wife or soon to be wife, could be excited about the wedding coming up, we just never know.

Reply by MW/VA on 6/22/12 8:38am
Msg #424327

I know a lot of folks who co-habitate. They will often

say they're "married" or that the other party is their "fiance". It's that social stigma thing.
Women lie about all kinds of things, including our age, weight, etc. LOL :-)

Reply by snoopdogMs on 6/22/12 9:32am
Msg #424329

What people do is their business

I did not walk in as an investigator and ask the woman just because she was present if she was married. She is the one who volunteered either a lie or the truth. But what she did say was in direct contradiction to how Mr. Borrower listed himself on the application. One says I'm married, the other says no. I don't know what the truth is. I called title this morning and gave them this info and they can do what they want with the discrepancy. I have gone to a few closings over the last 5 years where the spouse hid the information and the documents had to be redone to comply with our state laws. I don't make the laws here about non-borrowing spouses.

Reply by LynnNC on 6/22/12 9:36am
Msg #424330

Re: What people do is their business

I would have handled it the same way - let title and the lender find out the facts.

Reply by jba/fl on 6/22/12 9:32am
Msg #424328

"Sometimes borrowers don't want their new spouses on the paperwork."

So doing the loan now keeps her off the paperwork. Then again, if she later needs to be on the paperwork, adding is easy enough through whatever method of conveyance is used in your area.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 6/22/12 9:37am
Msg #424331

Title company may insert a marriage status affidavit

if they chose to.

Reply by Deborah Breedlove on 6/22/12 3:13pm
Msg #424364

Recent signing - I called and confirmed the appointment for date and time, and that both he and wife would be present, etc. When I get the docs, they show his name as John, and wife's name as Jane. First thing, I check their IDs and see that her ID says Joan, not Jane. I said "Unfortunately it looks like they mispelled your name on all the documents." Wife says, "Jane was his first wife." Borrower says, "I guess it didn't occur to me to mention to the LO that Jane died two years ago, and I married Joan last year." WHAT!? I guess they never referred to the current wife by name when discussing the loan, etc, just "the wife." Called LO, signing was aborted and docs redrawn after BO sent death cert to title for new deed etc.

So now, when I call to confirm an appointment, I say "So, John, you and your wife, Jane will both need to be present for the signing"...blah, blah, blah.....That should prompt John to remember to mention that Jane has passed away, and therefore will not be available for the signing. Always learning.

Reply by Barb25 on 6/22/12 8:04pm
Msg #424388

Always learning... Ain't that the truth.

Every time I hear a story like this or have a similar mishap I add one more thing I check during the "confirmation" call. This is a good one... Wife's first/full name.... right. Great, Deborah

Reply by Barb25 on 6/22/12 10:34am
Msg #424336

I'm sorry but I don't understand the problem

You asked the man if he was married. He said no. This not only borders on paranoia it is beyond a "notary's job or business" If notaries start calling with suspicions like this they won't be getting many calls for signings.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 6/22/12 11:24am
Msg #424341

Barb, I did not go in investigating or being paranoid.

I don't understand what is so hard to understand when someone introduces herself as Mrs. Doe and the paperwork states that Mr. Borrower is unmarried. All I go by is what I hear, not what I perceive. I hear Mrs. Doe. Not I hope to be Mrs. Doe.

Reply by Barb25 on 6/22/12 11:57am
Msg #424348

Re: Barb, I did not go in investigating or being paranoid.

Okay. you win.

Reply by bfnotary on 6/22/12 4:44pm
Msg #424375

Re: Barb, I did not go in investigating or being paranoid.

The actually borrower says he isn't married. If he is lying to them, It is on him, we go in briefly describe the documents (without UPL), and execute documents. That is our duty. We are not there to play he said she said. I would execute the docs, then possibly let title know if I was that concerned he was lying.

Another idea is asking her for her id? If her id doesn't have his last name, all is good. ? just a thought.

Reply by Barb25 on 6/22/12 7:37pm
Msg #424386

But bfnotary, if not married it means

she is not signing. Then what right do you have to ask for ID? Just a thought...

Reply by bfnotary on 6/23/12 10:24am
Msg #424415

Re: But bfnotary, if not married it means

I wouldn't have asked for id, it isn't up to me to decide whom is telling truth or not, I was just saying that if they were worried about proceeding, ask her for her id, so you can clarify if there would be a problem with the signing. I personally would not do that. It was just a suggestion for anyone worried that they are not telling truth.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/22/12 10:48am
Msg #424339

"Paperwork" shows him as unmarried, probably because after the death of his wife title reverted to him, the survivor - docs filed at her death vested title in him, the widower (unmarried). If he's not re-married he'd have no reason to change it.

Yes, this is something for title to investigate - if he's not remarried yet then he's not lying - now if they have a Marital Status Affidavit in the package, you're going to rely on his word that he is married or unmarried - but don't refuse to notarize based on "gut" instinct or hunches - you need solid evidence that the statments he's making are untrue.

Just because she identified herself as Mrs. Doe, I would not have made a statement to Mr. Doe that "there might be a problem" - that's not my call to make. I'd have silently gone ahead then notified title.

JMO

Reply by snoopdogMs on 6/22/12 11:13am
Msg #424340

As stated in the first post, the closing was aborted

because he was supposed to get a 25 year loan, not 30. It was NOT aborted because of her statement. After I stated to him there may be a problem if they are married, he then said that they would be married in a few weeks and I continued on. I did not dispute his statement. I did not say that I could not continue any farther. In fact, I proceeded until we went over the HUD and note before signing the docs. He called his LO and said no go because of the 30 year term and I left with the papers. I would have proceeded had he agreed on the figures and years. The loan did not close because I refused to notarize any documents. I did not stop the closing. Had I closed the loan, I would have still notified title today and let them make the investigation. I NEVER said her statement halted the closing.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/22/12 11:43am
Msg #424344

Re: As stated in the first post, the closing was aborted

" I NEVER said her statement halted the closing"

I didn't say you did Marilyn - I understood your post - I said I would not have made the statement to him that there could be a problem.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 6/22/12 6:02pm
Msg #424379

This post was not intended to chide Linda H.

As far as I am concerned, Linda is one of the SHARPEST tacks in this huge box of signing agents/ notaries. I value her opinion and know that I can glean from her knowledge.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 6/22/12 6:04pm
Msg #424380

For clarity this is in reference to my post at 11:13 a.m. n/m

Reply by ikando on 6/22/12 11:25am
Msg #424342

Linda, I've done what you said in similar situations. Oklahoma is a common law marriage state, so if a couple represents as being married, technically they are.

Reply by PegiT_MN on 6/22/12 9:37pm
Msg #424396

One to buy.....two to refi or sell......

.....that's how it works in Minnesota! So if there is a Mrs. Doe.....she's signing!