Posted by ME/NJ on 3/7/12 1:34pm
Msg #414185

Had a bad deal today

LO's are right down there with used car sales people and some lawyers. Had RM app, arrive Mr is not prepared and find out Mrs is in nursing home and may not be with it. I asked if he had a POA and he did not under stand what that was (strike 1) I now asked if she was mentally aware of things, his reply I'm not sure. I say part of my duties is to ask all parties if they are fully aware of what they are signing.

I have a HCEM cert saying both have been counseled the other day, now I question this because if the Mrs in not aware and in a home how can this be. (strike 2)

At this point the LO said for him to sign and I should go to the nursing home, ok buddy like I have nothing else to do with my day and the Mr has not one form to go back with the package.

I now say I am not comfortable with this signing and refused to go forward. I am also contacting NJ Dept of Banking and Insurance and let them follow up on this as I won't put my stamp on it unless the Mr has a POA or Mrs is fully aware of what she is signing.

Reply by dickb/wi on 3/7/12 2:30pm
Msg #414192

mike i agree with you 100%...these lo's are still doing it.. n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 3/7/12 2:49pm
Msg #414198

I'm in agreement with you on this one, Mike. What is

that LO thinking, trying to complete an RM app. for someone in a skilled nursing facility? IMO, it's a lawsuit waiting to happen and I wouldn't be a party to it.

Reply by ME/NJ on 3/7/12 4:03pm
Msg #414209

Would love to know what local notary will take this deal

I'm sure someone will and as long as the Mrs is breathing and can some what right her name that is good enough for them.

Have another one in a hour, this is my second trip and 3rd set of docs for this one. Better go well that is all I have to say.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 3/7/12 4:07pm
Msg #414211

Good Luck on your second trip. n/m

Reply by ME/NJ on 3/7/12 6:27pm
Msg #414229

Perfect Day all deals sucked today

Showed up for for last deal and the husband was not home, I spoke with this man 3 times so he had my number. No call to say won't be home for the night NADA. Plus it was a redraw an hour before the appointment.

I'm sure this will come my way again, I'll make sure I'm busy when that happens.

Reply by Doris_CO on 3/7/12 6:48pm
Msg #414231

Would the wife even be eligible to sign the document since she's in a nursing home?

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 3/7/12 9:51pm
Msg #414257

Good point, Doris

If both spouses are on the loan, one can stay in the house without having to make repayments if the other one dies or leaves the house for assisted living. But if the wife has already left the house, as in this case, she might not even be eligible to be on the loan... another point the LO seems eager to ignore. Of course, it would be a disaster for the wife if the husband were the only one on the loan and he died first. She'd be forced to repay if she wanted to keep the house or it would be sold out from under her by the lender, who would undoubtedly gouge her for as much as they could get away with, which would probably be everything since she appears to be unable to take care of anything . RMs are really tricky, and this "counseling" is largely hogwash as far as I can tell, since too many RM borrowers I've signed have asked me the most alarming questions. That's why I don't do any RMs anymore unless the LO is going to be there.....

Reply by Bear900/CA on 3/10/12 4:09am
Msg #414490

That certainly is an uncomfortable situation to be in. I think we have all been in the position where an inexperienced or unscrupulous loan officer has failed to do things properly. And yet, they are our livelihood. Without the loan originator there is no loan doc signer.

In their defense, not all loan officers are equal and the good guys get tossed in with the bad. Some are licensed and have taken state and federal exams and have had extensive background checks. They belong to their trade associations that promote honesty and professionalism. They pay high fees and receive annual continuing education to retain their federal NMLS license endorsement and state license. These are the cream of the crop. Their ranks have shrunk by one third since such strict mandates were put in place two years ago. Many did not make the cut and went elsewhere. That’s a good thing.

Where did they go? To depository banks and credit unions who don’t require a single one of these requirements. Yet amazingly, we trust bank LO’s more than brokers. It may surprise you to hear that the ones who made the cut are mortgage brokers or mortgage bankers (not retail) and their loan officers. Most of these people know what they are doing.

Some lending companies operate under state laws that also require none of the above. The point is, they are not all equal.

Please reference the following HUD Mortgagee Letter 93-22 for incompetent HECM borrowers.

http://www.hud.gov/offices/adm/hudclips/letters/mortgagee/files/93-22ml.txt

“Mortgage loan application may not be executed by power of attorney.”

So the husband would not have one and could not sign for her if he did. He could however sign for her as a conservator or guardian.

“Court-appointed conservator or guardian may execute any necessary documents, including the mortgage loan application. The lender must provide evidence that the conservator or guardian has authority to obligate the borrower.”

The counseling session consists of a number of questions to verify the borrower’s competency. It’s the counselor’s responsibility to verify her “awareness”. The fact that she is in a nursing home does not necessarily mean she is mentally incompetent or unaware. It can mean that she and her husband desperately need the cash to keep her alive.

Initial steps for an HECM: 1) counseling session BEFORE the loan officer can take an app and possibly make any personal judgment about the borrower’s competency. 2) Complete the loan app. Your stamp is not required and the app is not a binding document. It is the beginning of a process.

The situation may have become more obvious once you met the wife but that didn’t happen and I don’t blame you for not wanting to drag yourself around town. Hope you have more success next time.

Best!