Posted by NJDiva on 3/23/12 1:33pm
Msg #415825

Hi All. Okay, so this is scary...

I had a closing yesterday where the woman worked at the Prosecutors Office. It was supposed to be held there. We had been in touch at length and established a rapport. When I make the initial confirmation call, one of the questions I always ask is are you married? She tells me no(she was getting divorced.) As happens, many people do not know that there are NBS doc's that have to be signed if you are married and reside in a spousal state.

So, long story short, I get the doc's and I see her name and another person as the NBS (it could be a man or a woman's name.)

I called her and said, "Mrs. xox, who is Cxoxoxo?" And she said, that's my husband. I said "omgosh, he has to be there"...and we know what the response is, right?..."but he's not on the loan.", then, "but we're getting divorced."

So another long story short, I get there and he doesn't have an ID. He has credit cards but no photo ID. It was "lost" or "stolen". He was going to get a new passport but he just hadn't gotten around to it yet. Oh, and it's been gone for quite a while. First of all, can someone tell me why a 50 year old man would not have an ID (oh, he doesn't drive.)?

She proceeds to tell me that he didn't have to have his ID before when they refinanced a couple of years ago. He just came in, signed the doc's he needed to sign and left. I asked how they knew it was her husband. She said, "I don't know, but they didn't check." She proceeds to ask me to please let them sign the documents (you know the sob story).

I said, "I absolutely cannot do that. It's against the law. I am swearing that your husband is who he says he is and without proper documentation there's no way I can do that." She asks me again. She then says "well the notaries in the office do it all the time. They don't check ID's." I said again, "It's against the law and if they are caught doing that, it's a serious offense. They could be fined heavily, have their commission revoked and worse, jailed." She implores me again to do it, and I say, "Mrs. XXX, you work for the Prosecutors Office, you should know that fraud is committed every day. I'm not suggesting you are committing fraud, however, I would be doing so if I swear to someone's identity that I have no idea who they are. I would protect your identity and privacy just as diligently." I told her I would love to know who that person was that did her last closing. She said she would never tell because there is no way she would want them to face the consequences they could potentially face.

I didn't want to tell her that I can go down to the County Court House and look at the recorded documents as they are public records. But I swear, I have an inkling to do so!!!!

We finally had to call the title company and the title company told her it would have to be adjourned until he was able to obtain a photo ID. I felt so bad for her. But it was out of my control!!!

Does that really disgust anyone else?

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 3/23/12 1:36pm
Msg #415827

I don't like this wording: "I am swearing that your husband

is who he says he is".

The notary is not swearing to anything (except in California, and even them they aren't really swearing; just declaring under penalties of perjury). You are CERTIFYING that the HUsband is who he says he is, but you are not swearing to it.

Not to nitpick, it just gets on my nerves.

Reply by NJDiva on 3/23/12 2:03pm
Msg #415835

lol...OMG, I AM SOOO grateful to be able to get on your

nerves! Now you see how WE feel? lmao

But I really do appreciate your constructive criticism. I know you mean it with love so I'll take it gracefully. Besides, I most generally tell you when you get on my nerves...lmao Have to give credit where credits due, you taught me something today Robert!

I do like saying that I'm swearing to it because it sounds so much more compelling and persuasive.

Reply by desktopfull on 3/23/12 1:59pm
Msg #415833

BTW, the next time someone tells you "I'm getting a divorce" that means they are still married.

Okay, please tell me why you feel sorry for someone that is a state prosecutor who is trying to get you to break the law? Is she above the law because she works as an attorney for the state? You know that she wouldn't have hesitated to fry you if something had gone wrong with the loan. What this woman tried to get you to do is exactly how many spouses lose their share of the equity in their own homes. The prosecutor should be the one being reported, makes me wonder how many she may have put in jail fraudulently.

Reply by NJDiva on 3/23/12 2:11pm
Msg #415838

NO, NO, NO, I didn't SAY she was a

Prosecutor! I said she worked in that office. I don't know what capacity and I really don't care. So don't start rumors DTF...lmao! xo

I felt bad because she and I had established a rapport. I liked her as a person. If there was anything I could have done to get the signing closed for her, the title company and the financial institution, I would have done so (as long as it's legal and ethical.)

I'm referring to the fact that the NOTARY didn't follow due diligence, at the very LEAST!!!

Reply by desktopfull on 3/23/12 2:18pm
Msg #415839

Re: NO, NO, NO, I didn't SAY she was a

Sorry I misunderstood that point. Not starting rumors. I have no sympathy for people that want to put a bullseye on my back by asking me to break the law, and she should have known better given where she works.

Reply by NJDiva on 3/23/12 2:22pm
Msg #415840

Right there witchya DTF!

I wasn't really suggesting you were starting rumors...lol Just teasing! But I know you can take it!

Reply by Rhonda Jennings on 4/4/12 11:47am
Msg #416954

Re: NO, NO, NO, I didn't SAY she was a

I wish this forum had a "like" button because I really agree w/ "Desktopfull's" statement about the folks that don't mind putting the "bullseye" on your back. People don't care about throwing you under the bus to get what they want! SMH

Reply by MW/VA on 3/23/12 2:37pm
Msg #415846

It's never personal & doesn't matter if you liked her or not

IMO, you could have saved yourself a lot of trouble by asking if he had a valid picture ID before you went to the appt. Of course, we never buy the "someone else did it before without it" deal.
She'll be in for a bigger surprise when they are divorced, and she has to refi the property again in her own name. I'll never understand why people do that unless they think they can get it all taken care of before the divorce. LOL

Reply by 1Notary1 on 3/23/12 2:49pm
Msg #415848

Re: It's never personal & doesn't matter if you liked her or not

I'm with you on that MW/VA. That's the first thing I say when I contact the borrower to make sure everyone has a valid and current photo ID.

Reply by HisHughness on 4/4/12 1:20pm
Msg #416962

Questions & conveyances for confirmation call:

1. Do you have a drivers license, and is it unexpired? Please make a copy of it in advance; I will need to take the copy with me, and will need to see the license itself.

2. Are you single; not just separated and/or divorcing, but are you actually unmarried?

3. Is there a place that would be more convenient for you to close? I can't change the time without consulting the TC, but we can adjust the location.

4. Do you have a cell phone?

5. Have you been told whether you will need to bring a check to closing, and, if so, the amount and whether a personal check will be acceptable.

6. We will be shuffing about 120 pages of documents between us, so we will need some working space; not a coffee table, but something like a dining table that's been cleared off.

7. My phone numbers are (XXX)XXX-XXXX and (YYY)YYY-YYYY. You can call either one of those numbers up until 10 P.M. any day of the week.

Reply by NJDiva on 3/23/12 2:56pm
Msg #415849

Of course I mentioned to have the copies and originals ready

and available on our last call. If you don't talk to people like they're in kindergarten they don't get it. It's so frustrating. My girlfriend told me I say too many words when I talk to bo's and title companies on the phone, but this is a prime example of why we have to...and THEN it's still not clear-or they only hear what they want to hear is probably more like it.

Maybe she thought that since we were there I would just let it go. Maybe she mistook my kindness for weakness. Whatever the case is, it is.

Reply by jba/fl on 3/23/12 7:44pm
Msg #415872

Re: Of course I mentioned to have the copies and originals ready

Your gf is right - the more words you use, the more they don't hear. KISS

Too many words becomes a drone - moves right to the background. Very KISS

Reply by Karla/OR on 3/23/12 4:00pm
Msg #415855

Wow I hope I have that much composure when I run into a similar situation. You handled it marvelously!

This may not have anything to do with anything (& I may be confused), but wouldn't the lender/TC have discussed and wanted proof of divorce papers during the application process to determine if she was in fact divorced OR NOT?!!

Reply by LKT/CA on 3/23/12 5:57pm
Msg #415864

<<<So another long story short, I get there and he doesn't have an ID. He has credit cards but no photo ID. It was "lost" or "stolen". He was going to get a new passport but he just hadn't gotten around to it yet. Oh, and it's been gone for quite a while. First of all, can someone tell me why a 50 year old man would not have an ID (oh, he doesn't drive.)?>>>

Did you see the credit cards to see if the names on the credit cards match the male name on the docs? If you did, then obviously she got a hit man to knock off hubby, swiped his wallet and slipped that imposter guy the credit cards and a few bucks to pose as hubby. If you never saw the cards, then for sure, this guy's an imposter.

Reply by jba/fl on 3/23/12 7:53pm
Msg #415874

Excellent, Lisa! ROFL n/m

Reply by desktopfull on 3/23/12 9:16pm
Msg #415887

Wasn't aware that credit cards were acceptable id for notarization anywhere, wouldn't matter if the guy had a 100 of them I wouldn't have notarized his signature either.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/23/12 11:19pm
Msg #415903

I think the point was that there's a good chance that the guy who showed up wasn't really the soon-to-be ex-husband. That's exactly what crossed my mind, too. I didn't get the impression that anyone was suggesting using the credit cards as ID for notary purposes.

The more people push that line about what the other notaries have done in the past, the more suspicious I get and the less likely I am to want to work out a solution. BTW, in some states, this might be considered a situation where (a) credible witness(es) might be used [depending on state law]. But I'd want him to show me SOMETHING showing his name (that he has on his person...) before I'd even mention that as a possibility - especially under the circumstances described.

Reply by Lorraine Lougheed on 3/23/12 6:36pm
Msg #415867

Wow... sounds like you certainly spent too much time with this borrower when in reality the man there was probably not her husband. This woman works in a prosecutors office, she knows the laws and if I had been the notary I would certainly not be feeling bad for her. She wanted to stick it to her soon to be ex-husband.

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/23/12 8:05pm
Msg #415875

I call it an attempt at mortgage fraud.

I find it interesting that no one else (that I have noticed) suggests that you contact authorities or someone of importance in this transaction.

As an arm of the title company and lender handling a loan transaction, I believe that we are supposed to be more than checkers of ID. We should do our part to give serious feedback about situations that stand to harm the title company and/or lender. This one certainly does.

Reply by NJ_Notary on 3/23/12 9:01pm
Msg #415884

WOW Cheryl! This a very troubling situation. Considering who her employer is and what she has stated, if I were in your shoes I would being making a telephone call to the Jeffery Chiesa's office. The attorney general's office does not look to kindly on any of county prosecutors offices doing such illegal actions. This jeopardizes MANNNY things and could sadly get a guilty criminal off becuase of technicalities. I know the AG's office has done sweeps in several county Prosecutor's Offices on misconduct. Besides the AG's office, letters (which can be annoymous) should be sent to the county freeholder board, your district's assemblyman/woman, state senator as well as the governor's office. I sit on several boards and I can assure you that the governor does personally read complaints against its regulatory agencies and law enforcement divisions. Shame on that county prosecutor's office employees who are committing these acts of fraud.

Reply by Natacha Joseph on 3/23/12 9:35pm
Msg #415890

Beyond the pale; that there's a hot mess NJDIVA. Scary it is indeed.

Reply by Priscilla Witman on 3/23/12 10:56pm
Msg #415901

I think its probably safe to assume

that you won't be called for a return trip. If this woman is perpetrating fraud, she can't risk you knowing for sure. I think you should ring the alarm, so to speak.