Posted by ToniK on 3/15/12 8:02am
Msg #414985
Hugh, here is an answer to your Virginia note question
I spoke with some people in the Virginia office and this is the response I got "You can notarize the document , but any clarification of the wording would be by the person’s who drew it up. Also you can write in your own statement." This was from Michelle Thomas.
And yes I do fill in the blanks and notarize the document with my seal and have done that for years with no problems.
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Reply by MW/VA on 3/15/12 8:50am
Msg #414987
Same here, Toni. I don't let that "certify" word throw me. My position has always been that I am witnessing the Note & DOT signed together. :-)
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/15/12 8:58am
Msg #414989
Okay...call me confused
Hugh said the certification (which I've seen) has the "notary" certifying that "The note carries a notarial certification declaring that it is the same note referenced in the Deed of Trust. No other certification: No acknowledgment, no "sworn to and subscribed," etc."
Your contact said you can notarize the document "but any clarification of the wording would be by the person’s who drew it up. Also you can write in your own statement." "
How do you do this? You can notarize signatures on a document, but obviously can't notarize your own signature. Also, they said any clarification would have to come from the persons who drew up the document. That's not you.
I don't see how you're authorized to do this and affix your seal. As a Signing Agent yes...but I don't see how you can do it as a notary because you can't notarize your own signature...and you didn't draw up the document.
Also, this may not be a function that is authorized for Texas notaries....that's something that I think needs to be taken into account. Just because VA says it's okay doesn't make it okay for any other state's notary....
JMHO - my humble and CONFUSED opinion...
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Reply by VT_Syrup on 3/15/12 9:28am
Msg #414994
If you sign once, you aren't notarizing your own signature
The only way to notarize your own signature is to sign twice. For example, if you sign your own notary application and then administer the oath of office to yourself and sign the jurat. Obviously not allowed. There are cases where you can sign twice, once as a witness and once as a notary, so long as you don't put your own name on the list of people who acknowledged their signatures.
If you are the only one signing a document, it might be a clue that you are performing an unauthorized notarial act. But sometimes it's OK, as when issuing a certified copy (in states that allow it).
I agree with Linda H/FL that it's unclear that non-attorney notaries outside LA, VA, and maybe NJ are authorized to certify that one document is in any way related to another document.
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Reply by HisHughness on 3/15/12 10:03am
Msg #414999
Linda's correct
The sole function of the attestation was to certify that the note was the instrument referenced in the deed. It had nothing to do with me witnessing the signing of the note. Which is why I'm puzzled that the task would fall to the notary; it just seems to me there are other, far more appropriate people involved in the process who should do it.
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Reply by FlaNotary2 on 3/15/12 11:00am
Msg #415003
It actually makes perfect sense
The point is to make sure that "THIS NOTE" goes with "THIS MORTGAGE", and if you have all the docs together and you notarize the mortgage, and you know that the note goes with the mortgage, I don't see why it is an issue to sign off on this.
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Reply by ToniK on 3/15/12 11:20am
Msg #415009
Re: It actually makes perfect sense
Great way of putting it. And yes, thats how I view it. All Im doing is really matching the dates of the Note with the DOT.
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Reply by Bob_Chicago on 3/15/12 11:34am
Msg #415010
The note and mortgage contain language "tying"the instuments
together.
The fact that they are both in the same group of papers in not conclusive.
Not really a notorial function, as it would require interprting the language of the note.
Glad that this is not required in IL.
I have had numerous instances where a borrower signs multile intruments involving various properties during the same appointment, and all dated as of the same date.
That said, I would probably sign the certificate , ablsent extenuating cirucmstances.
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Reply by ILNotary on 3/15/12 11:06am
Msg #415005
Notarizing a VA note in IL
I just had the same situation come up last week for a VA refinance that
I closed in IL. IL law says Illinois notaries are not authorized to certify copies
of any document. Yet VA notaries do it all the time on their "Notes".
I would have had no problem notarizing a statement at the bottom that
says the borrower attests that he did indeed sign a note and mortgage
in front of me. However, I believe the law, at least in IL, prohits me from
being the "certifyer" instead of the "notary who is certifying a borrowers
statement". I did it this time, but will not close anymore VA loans in IL which
may leave me open to liability. I don't believe my errors and ommissions
insurance would protect me either.
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Reply by FlaNotary2 on 3/15/12 11:12am
Msg #415007
Except that certification is not asking you to certify copy
I don't believe you are violating an Illinois law by signing that statement
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Reply by HisHughness on 3/15/12 1:34pm
Msg #415020
It was the liability question that ultimately resolved...
...the issue for me.
I sometimes do loans with more than one copy of the note; it's rare, and sometimes the borrower will choose not to sign the second copy, but I do get packets with multiple notes. Certifying content of the deed is not a commonly performed function of notaries in Texas; there may be no statutory prohibition, but it certainly is well beyond the bounds of what we normally do. Though the chances of any negative ramifications appear remote, they do exist, and I don't think that my E&O would cover any problem because that is not a notarial function.
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/15/12 1:41pm
Msg #415021
I think that was the question I was asking..
and didn't mean to upset anyone...but if it's not a notarial function, how can one affix their seal "legally". That's why I said it's done as a signing agent, not notary - and therefore, it's not notarized.
I'm confusing myself now...I'll hush..
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Reply by FlaNotary2 on 3/15/12 2:11pm
Msg #415026
I agree on this one - no seal n/m
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Reply by FlaNotary2 on 3/15/12 2:11pm
Msg #415025
This certification is not asking you to "certify content" of
anything. It is not asking the notary to say "I certify that this note is correct". Nothing of the sort. It's asking the notary to certify that this note is secured by a mortgage which I notarized. If you don't have this knowledge, don't certify it. But if you DO have this knowledge, then certify it. What is the liability? I really just don't see it.
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Reply by ToniK on 3/15/12 11:13am
Msg #415008
Re: Okay...call me confused
I am only answering Hugh original question that was directed to us Virginia notaries. Yes we notarize it and with no issues. As for other states, like you said it might not be a function that you are allowed to do. I only stated that as a Virginia notary, this is how we handle it.
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Reply by NC_Closer on 3/15/12 2:27pm
Msg #415030
The exact language used was .
The language used is ...."..certify a note described in and secured by a deed of trust...". That's certifying content of both documents in my opinion. I chose not to. Its the first time in 9 years that I have ever had to address this. If I had to deal with it on each signing I would have to give it more consideration before signing it but I still wouldn't put my seal on it.
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Reply by FlaNotary2 on 3/15/12 2:55pm
Msg #415036
What did the entire certificate say? n/m
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Reply by NC_Closer on 3/15/12 3:30pm
Msg #415046
Re: What did the entire certificate say?
The exact vebiage as follows:
This is to certify that this is the Note described in and secured by a Deed of Trust dated March 06, 2012 on the Property located in [town name], Virginia.
My commission expires: ___________________________
______________________________________________________________
Notary Public
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/15/12 2:40pm
Msg #415033
And btw...chances are E&O won't cover this type of act..JMO n/m
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Reply by ILNotary on 3/21/12 3:43pm
Msg #415617
VA note certification discussion
As a follow up to the VA note questions on 3/15/12 nessage #414985, I asked for an opinion from NNA. Turns out this has been discussed at length before - see message #407898.
Question to NNA Notary Consultant: Bottom of Pg. 3 on a VA note stated: "This is to certify that this is the note described in and secured by a Deed of Trust dated __-__-__ on the property located in _____ County, Virginia." As an out-of-state notary, how should I handle this kind of requirement?
His response was: No, you should not sign that statement. The notary only notarized people signatures on documents and the notary would not know if this is the Note for the property located in _____ County. Virginia.
Seems to be lots of different opinions on this topic so thought I would share the NNA response for you to ponder if you are ever asked to notarize VA notes. Hopes this helps.
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