Posted by NC_Closer on 3/9/12 11:59am
Msg #414438

Note Acknowlegement verbiage

I'm getting the business from Title for refusing to notarize a NOTE with the language below. The closing took place in NC and the property is located in VA. I've explained that I can not certify the contents on the document but only ackowledge the signatures. I've offered a general acknowledgement stating the borrowers signed a document before me entitled NOTE on the date which I will gladly attach to the original Note. They are checking with the Lender to see if that is acceptable but the lender doesn't see any problem whatsoever with the existing language as thousands of the documents have been notarized in Virginia. (The fella at Title agrees with me on this). Any thoughts?

This is to certify that this is the Note described in and secured by a Deed of Trust dated March 06, 2012 on the Property located in [town name], Virginia.

My commission expires: ___________________________
Notary Public

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/9/12 12:25pm
Msg #414440

Not sure about in NC...but here in FL what they're

asking isn't even a notarial function, so to certify that as a notary, and affix my seal, IMO would be a no-no.

Since a paragraph of the mortgage cites the terms of the note it's securing (even date, amount, property address, etc etc) I could feasibly sign this in my role as a signing agent - however, it's my opinion and belief that this is a function of the person at title who prepared the docs and who truly CAN certify that the note is the same as the mortgage and vice versa - I'm not comfortable certifying to someone else's work.

JMHO

Reply by NC_Closer on 3/9/12 12:32pm
Msg #414443

Re: Not sure about in NC...but here in FL what they're

That's what I said....there's nothing to notarized and only the preparer should certify the documents.

Reply by MW/VA on 3/9/12 1:08pm
Msg #414450

While I'm in complete agreement with this, I can tell you

from experience that most tc's don't see it that way. I'm guessing it's because they don't have notaries on staff.

Reply by Barb25 on 3/9/12 10:18pm
Msg #414475

Re: While I'm in complete agreement with this, I can tell you

I agree with all of you above. Try telling the TCs that. Talk to the hand.... It's like what can we do to make this work... Or, you know what... I don't need this aggrevation or by the way your business... Amazing... I don't know I guess if it were too easy they would call it a hobby....

Reply by MW/VA on 3/9/12 12:46pm
Msg #414446

I complete them & have never had a problem. Under the new VA Notary Laws we can certify several things. This is a gray area, but I don't see any ramifications. As a signing agent, I'm the one that sees the Note & DOT being signed simultaneously. To each his own on this one, though. I can't advise anyone else what to do.

Reply by Jillian Hinrichs on 3/9/12 12:49pm
Msg #414448

Re: Wouldn't do in KS or MO

Notary Handbooks state I can only certify that a copy is a true and correct copy of the original. I can't certify anything else. I agree that this is something the person finalizing the docs should be doing.

Reply by Belinda/CA on 3/9/12 1:29pm
Msg #414453

Please see new string on LA Mortgage and NOTE n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 3/9/12 2:11pm
Msg #414455

"Please see new string" cute--Think term is "thread" :-) n/m

Reply by Barb25 on 3/9/12 10:07pm
Msg #414473

I have been through this 2 times....

Actually anyone from the title company could have done this BUT... someone decided you should do this. SO....

This first time it happened to me I called Title Co. and explained I couldn't do it... They said fine. Just send it back. From that time to the time they got it back, story had changed and it was a nightmare. It eventually got sorted out. But nearly lost the business of the Title Company....erroneously by the way. But would that have mattered. I don't think so.

A week later I received another VA package....Perfect. Not. I called and explained. I told them I could not do this because it not something a notary was empowered to do in Florida. I realized it was falling on deaf ears. So I copied statutes from the Florida and explained the 6 basic duties of a Florida notary. None of which fell into a category enabling the certifying of the Note. I said that I could sign the document. And I could acknowledge the borrowers signature on the note. They were happy with that. I have no idea why they would be happy with that. But it got me off the hook and I did not lose a customer. So all was good as far as I was concerned.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 3/9/12 10:21pm
Msg #414476

See Msg #407898, or search "ne varietur" or "paraph"

This certificate is NOT asking the notary to certify that the contents of the note or mortgage are correct. What this certificate does is ensure that THIS NOTE goes with THIS MORTGAGE. If you did not prepare the note and mortgage, I can see why notaries might be hesitant to sign off on it. I have used this certificate, called a paraph, on other documents that have attachments. For example, an affidavit that has exhibits. On the exhibit I will write the paraph which is:

"NE VARIETUR for identification with (title of document), as sworn to before me on (date)"

As this is not a notarial certificate in Florida, I do sign this certificate but do NOT include my official seal. I don't see a problem with this, and if you are not OK with signing their certification then you should not take a Louisiana loan signing.

Reply by Barb25 on 3/9/12 10:27pm
Msg #414478

Re: See Msg #407898, or search "ne varietur" or "paraph"

This is fine. I am good with this. But if the title company comes back at you it becomes a mexican stand off. We are talking about losing buiness here. I get Title companies all the times telling me that is what the lender wants..... Certainly in this case, a general acknowledgment is useless but it satisfied the title company. I signed the doc. And the general ack satisfied the Title company. Everybody was happy. I still get work. That was my point. Does it makes sense. To someone it does.

Reply by MikeC/TX on 3/10/12 12:51am
Msg #414484

Apples and oranges

"if you are not OK with signing their certification then you should not take a Louisiana loan signing."

Go back and read the original message - the property was in Virginia, not Louisiana. Two different legal systems, and the last time I looked VA hadn't adopted the Napoleonic Code...

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 3/10/12 8:15am
Msg #414496

I understand that, but the certificate she mentioned is

a paraph, which is, by and large, unique to Louisiana. For some reason some Virginia notes now include this verbiage, but we are still talking about paraphs.

Reply by Barb25 on 3/10/12 11:08am
Msg #414504

Assuming I am "she" What I am talking about is

not signing the note cert. It is signing it as a notary. The title company wanted me to stamp it with my commission etc..... That I said I can not do. Will not do.... They (this particular title company) was happy with that along with general acknowledgment of the note signed by the borrowers. Whether the State of Virginia was happy with this, I have no idea. But I still have a customer. I have had no negative feedback. End of story.

I obviously do not make myself very clear on here. I am not advocating this as a solution. I was just telling of an experience that I had and what happened. I am not so sure it was even necessary for me to have signed the note. Someone in the title company could have done that. Having said that, someone from the great state of Virginia whomever should best answer that. Thank you.

Reply by Barb25 on 3/10/12 10:51am
Msg #414503

Re: Apples and oranges :) n/m

Reply by ArtG/KS on 3/9/12 10:22pm
Msg #414477

Re: I have been through this 2 times....

In Kansas a notary cannot certify anything if signing as a notary only. The exception is that we can make a copy of a document and certify its a true and exact copy in the posession of----. We cannot even do this if its a vital statistic document such as a death or marriage certificate. In another forum long ago it was stated that only Pennsylvania notaries could actually certify an "event". But that was not clearly defined on that forum.

I have a stamp that I use on certain ID affidavits that states, "Kansas Notaries Public cannot notarized their own signature per KSA 53-109 of the Kansas Statutes Annotated. One company actually phoned the notary desk at our SOS office and found this to be absolutely true.

Reply by Barb25 on 3/9/12 10:45pm
Msg #414479

I think this is good that everyone stick to their guns so to

speak. I don't think this situation with Virginia was every meant to create such a situation. Certainly it could be signed off by anyone at the title company. But hey who am I to make this statement. And at this point it certainly has been blown out of proportion by someone who has blown it out of proportion. lol. Every now and then I get these forms where someone wants me to notarize my own signature. I try to tell them I cannot. They tell me that is what the lender wants. I tell them they need to talk to the governor of Florida. (Nicely of course). And if it is worth it, I have to figure out how to give them something that will satisfy their request... Otherwise I have lost the business or they realize they are unreasonable. Whatever. THE END. Have a nice weekend.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 3/10/12 4:54am
Msg #414493

I'm with the people who say "NO!". That's NOT a Notarial block. There's no way I'd notarize it.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 3/10/12 6:50am
Msg #414494

Re: Note Acknowlegement verbiage; see separate certificate

It strikes me that this verbiage is a bit like the detached certificates we use when an acknowledgement won't fit on the signature page of a document. Many of us use preprinted certificates and fill in the title, signer, and number of pages that the separate certificate is attached to. It isn't quite the same, but there is some similarity.

Reply by LynnNC on 3/10/12 3:20pm
Msg #414511

Based on NC Notary law, we can't do it

I have closed VA loans and not done it - just put a post-it note that I couldn't.

Reply by ArtG/KS on 3/12/12 9:57am
Msg #414574

Not here and that is by a case law ruling a UPL issue to do it. Also it has the effect of notarizing ones own signature. You could notarize some one else's signature who is authorized to certify but thats it.

When I see one of these, I phone the Title company and let them know the above issue and that its a UPL for us to do it.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 3/12/12 10:21am
Msg #414577

Notarizing own signature? n/m

Reply by VT_Syrup on 3/12/12 10:23am
Msg #414578

Notarizing own signature?

I can see how it could be UPL, and of that's what the Kansas courts have decided, then that's how it is in Kansas. But I fail to see how it would be notarizing one's own signature. Of course, "notarizing" is an awful word; it's better to refer to specific notarial acts.