Posted by Ocean Pacific Notary Services, Inc. on 3/29/12 6:09am
Msg #416428

Ohio Notary LAW - help

Notary using an expired stamp from 2010, crossing out dates and writing in new commission date. Are OHIO notaries permitted to use expired seals/stamps? She said she has always done it, never had an issue.

I have seen it in New York notaries use EXPIRED seals and it makes lenders scream but never OHIO.

Why won't a notary just get a new stamp. Are they so expensive? Is there something specia in OHIO that makes a purchase of a new stamp prohibitive. Looking for info please.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 3/29/12 7:03am
Msg #416432

maybe they are just that broke, and can't afford the stamp?

Reminds me of a time, way back when, while working for a real estate attorney, he used to notarize documents and when he'd forget his stamp, he signed the document, then underneath it, wrote his commission number and expiration date, then circled the whole thing?!

I wasn't yet a notary public, but didn't think nothing of it. NOW, I always think of that time as a "holy crap" moment in that I'd never do that!!

I'd call the Ohio SOS if you really want to know....but hopefully, you'll get that answer here...

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 3/29/12 11:31am
Msg #416466

wrote commission number and expiration date, then circled

If memory serves. way back when, that was legal in Illinois.

Reply by Saul Leibowitz on 3/29/12 12:52pm
Msg #416475

Re: wrote commission number and expiration date, then circled

Bob, it was and I did it a few times when I was asked to notarize something and didn't have my seal because the request was impromptu. We cannot do this anymore, but we could then.

Reply by anotaryinva on 3/29/12 7:36am
Msg #416433

In Virginia we cannot strike through anything on our stamps, Ohio it seems doesn't even require that info to be on the stamp so Im guessing it's allowed.

From the Ohio website:
The seal may be of either a type that will stamp ink onto a document or one that will emboss it. The name of the notary public may, instead of appearing on the seal, be printed, typewritten, or stamped in legible, printed letters near the notary public’s signature on each document signed by the notary public.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 3/29/12 7:40am
Msg #416434

isn't it amazing how lax some state's notary laws are? n/m

Reply by Julie/MI on 3/29/12 7:53am
Msg #416437

To Carrie

I'm in one of those lax states and am grateful.

we are there to id the people to the best of our abilities.

I just don't understand why people want more regulation as it doesn't make one a better notary. Having a stamp with a crossed out notary date, doesn't make one a better or worse notary so long as they checked the identification of the person, compared signatures. Even if the id is expired, I don't see the drama some states invoke.

After some recent posts here, I'd NEVER own a signing service, I cannot believe how many on this forum will reject to notarize docs based on there state's handbooks. That IS not a service to the public and sincerely hope the NNA doesn't court our current SOS into making the mess CA notaries have.

Reply by desktopfull on 3/29/12 9:02am
Msg #416443

Our state's handbook are the statutes on notary law in

this state. You state: "I cannot believe how many on this forum will reject to notarize docs based on there state's handbooks. That IS not a service to the public...," those laws are there to prevent fraud and I'm glad they are enforced in this state. Quite a few notaries are going to jail for fraudulently producing documents for law firms to enable the plaintiff's to file foreclosures. I believe they were referred to as "foreclosure mills" in the national news. Yes Julie, we need the notary laws to be as clear and detailed as possible so that they cannot be misunderstood. We aren't serving the Public by slapping our stamp on anything that the Public puts in front of us either.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 3/29/12 11:21am
Msg #416464

Hey Julie, I hear you...IL is the same and the new ID law

which passed a few years ago, IMO has to get seriously revised.

Seniors who are otherwise unable to leave their home, nursing home facility, etc., often times have an expired state id or driver's license. In th past, we used to use the nursing home employees mainly the social worker or administrator, relatives or neighbors, acting as a credible witness, and this allowed us to notarize their document. But now, a person "is identified upon the oath or affirmation of a credible witness personally known to the notary.."WTH ??

Can't tell you how many times I have told family members that I would love to assist them but that the senior signer must have a current ID at the time of the signing...I've also told them to complain to our SOS office about accomodating these seniors! This law is in effect until 07/01/2013, but most likely will be permanent law after that.

I think that stringent notary laws are needed, but they must be reasonable!

Reply by janCA on 3/29/12 1:56pm
Msg #416483

Julie, what mess do CA notaries have? n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/29/12 2:31pm
Msg #416488

Yes, please do tell 'cause I'd take the opposite position

If we limit the discussion to the issue at hand, CA law would PREVENT this particular mess. That could never happen here, unless someone was committing out right fraud, but that would be immediately apparent to anyone with the slightest knowledge about notarization.

When it comes to handling and issuing of notary stamps, I believe the rest of the states could take a lesson or two from our state. So please don't lump the whole of California in with the NNA just 'cause they happen to be located here...

Reply by Julie/MI on 3/29/12 7:27pm
Msg #416523

Re: Yes, please do tell 'cause I'd take the opposite position

Not directed at you directly, Janet.

But over the years I've seen a lot of drama and many in your state that are off to report fellow notaries for violating the handbook over an extra initial or no initial or no sr. on ID (how will a baby boys' mother at birth know he's going to be a sr. one day?

A notary stamp doesn't mean much to me. If someone is going to swipe a notary's commission for fraud, they were not going to follow the handbook anyway, kwim?

I've seen plenty of battles over the name on docs doesn't match name on ID and in my state, if the signature matches, the birthday matches and I see the 15 year old family portrait on the wall and see the people in front of me match the people in portrait and maybe one of them was divorced or had another name in the past, I lose no sleep at night, if the Jr. is missing or if Mrs. uses her Confirmation name but her driver's license doesn't relfect it.

We don't even need a stamp in my state and if we do choose to use one, we don't need "approved" stamp companies.

I don't think states that have handbooks and classes turn out better notaries than those states that don't. We are there to make a reasonable that Joe Borrower is really the person that is in front of us. Now, even I will admit, with general notary work, there can be more shenanigans than with general refi work, which is why I don't do general notary work.

Or like Fl, that the governor appoints notaries, as if the governor REALLY knows the people they are appointing. We used to have to have a circuit court judge endorse us, which just ment the secretary piled a stack of notary applications on his desk, but they didn't know us from some crook on the street (that requirement is now not required).

So if the notary wants to use the same stamp to save a fraction of a cent, that's fine, they may be a fine notary, but the image projected in our line of work will yield not much business for that notary.

I think the state required verbage for jurats or acknowledgements is a bunch of garbage too. So with that, I'm off to my last closing of the evening

Reply by Julie/MI on 3/29/12 7:47am
Msg #416435

I'm sure it would record, but why should YOU have to explain to title/lender that this particular notary is too cheap to get a stamp? It's a write off and I would simply not use this person again, even if the dox were executed property as now you have this to explain to YOUR clients.

My state doesn't even require we use a stamp, we can simply handwrite our information.

HOWEVER, since I am a professional and want to make $$$, I simply use the stamp so issues are not created. Title companies and lenders are truly not concerned with stamp or no stamp requirements by all the states so why this notary would just not "get in the box" is perplexing to me.

Reply by Frances Kany on 3/29/12 9:10am
Msg #416446

After many years of doing loan signings and also working for attorneys I find it more professional to use a current stamp. And as mentioned before the cost of a stamp is a write off on taxes and in my state the expense is minimal.

Reply by Ocean Pacific Notary Services, Inc. on 3/29/12 9:18am
Msg #416447

I find that the cost of a stamp here on notary rotary is very inexpensive. Also, when you average the cost of the time of commission which is usually 4 yrs, it is maybe 5.00 a year for ROI for a notary stamp. I am sure that one loan signing will cover that $5.00 for one seal every 4 years.

I am not sure why this notary does not get a new seal but the response is that it has never been an issue before. Well it is now and too late to get it resolved. We will not use this notary ever, title will not use this notary ever, and lender will not use this notary ever . And now I have to update my signing instructions which you all hate to now include: YOUR STAMP CANNOT BE EXPIRED.

Reply by jojo_MN on 3/29/12 9:38am
Msg #416449

There is a reason for expiration dates on stamps.

I'm assuming that the reason the states are requiring the information put on stamps is because they don't want any notaries that are no longer commissioned to be doing business.

Minnesota, for example, requires the current commission to be on the stamp. See Minnesota Statutes
359.03, subd. 3.

Back in 2005 or 2006 when I was out one night, someone at an event told me that a friend of hers notarized her mortgage on her house. She told me that all her friend had to do was go to the office supply store and order a stamp. She didn't even have to "get a license or anything". When I mentioned that was illegal and asked who the "notary" was, she just left. Obviously she didn't want to get her friend in trouble. In Wisconsin, it is backwards in that you get your stamp before applying with the state for a commission.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 3/29/12 1:43pm
Msg #416481

Mrs. Williams - they have an office in Lansing. =( n/m

Reply by Julie/MI on 3/29/12 7:11pm
Msg #416520

Re: Mrs. Williams - they have an office in Lansing. =(

My dear Mrs. Kovacs, yes to my dismay I realized that about the same time I cancelled my membership. LOL!

Reply by jojo_MN on 3/29/12 9:30am
Msg #416448

The stamps are only $12 on NotRot for Premier members, $18 for basic. I'm sorry, but if this notary can't afford this basic (and most important) supply, they shouldn't be in business. JMOP

Reply by CinOH on 3/29/12 9:54am
Msg #416450

Yes, Ohio Notaries are permitted to do that.

Reply by MW/VA on 3/29/12 10:01am
Msg #416451

'Yes, Ohio Notaries are permitted to do that."

IMO it shouldn't be allowed. IMO it's lazy, unprofessional, etc.
Why bother to get commissioned if you don't even want to put out the price of a new
stamp/seal? I can see that back in the days of the embossers, but the stamps are so cheap!

Reply by CinOH on 3/29/12 10:29am
Msg #416459

Re: 'Yes, Ohio Notaries are permitted to do that."

Like I said, IMO it is poor form and I do not personally do it.

He asked if it was permissible in OH and I'm letting him know that it is.

It's actually part of our notary law and is not uncommon, especially in municipal settings, for the reasons I explained.

Reply by CinOH on 3/29/12 10:20am
Msg #416456

Hit enter too soon:

The document will record without problem in Ohio. Not sure if they will record outside of Ohio, though they should.

Agree with Julie: though this is allowed, I personally never do this. As soon as I know my new exp. date I get a new stamp ASAP.

Though, when I worked for the courts we did cross out the old exp date as standard practice because all of our notary supplies were ordered through the county. They used one supplier on the other side of the state. It sometimes took a few weeks to a month to get our new stamp because of all the red tape involved. So, in the meantime we were required to use the old stamps w/ the old comm. exp. date ,and correct it by hand, until we got the new stamps in.

I've never heard of anyone using a two year old stamp. It's not illegal as long as she hand corrects it . Documents notarized this way are valid and legal. It's just poor form, IMO.

Reply by Kendall Challenger on 3/29/12 10:22am
Msg #416457

Its inevitable..

When you hire a low cost notary....your bound to get low cost results.

Reply by CinOH on 3/29/12 10:31am
Msg #416460

Re: Its inevitable..

Didn't want to say it but I was thinking the same thing.

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/29/12 2:44pm
Msg #416490

Yes...I totally agree. n/m

Reply by VT_Syrup on 3/30/12 7:41am
Msg #416565

Someday I hope to see... (not entirely serious) n/m

Reply by VT_Syrup on 3/30/12 7:42am
Msg #416566

Someday I hope to see... (not entirely serious)

...a notarization performed by a military officer, army captain or above in rank:

My commission expires at the pleasure of the President of the United States

Reply by sparky/NM on 3/30/12 7:45am
Msg #416568

Re: Someday I hope to see... (not entirely serious)

Really you work for your Governor don't you? The Prez is way too busy. Your post made my day syrup as I sat here and laughed and laughed and laughed.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 3/30/12 7:54am
Msg #416571

Re: Someday I hope to see... (not entirely serious)

I forgot to mention that in Vermont, army captains or equivalent ranks in other services can administer oaths/affirmations or take acknowledgements, by virtue of their military commission; no state commission required. They can do this for anyone, not just other military members.