Posted by snowflake/PA on 3/27/12 2:19pm
Msg #416200

Will the undercutting notaries ever stop?

I don't understand how they can earn income closing loans by undercutting the seasoned professionals. Business costs have risen, gas is $3.95 gallon here, some loan packages are over 150 pages (had one last week) and they are accepting less than $xxx. When I call my vendors to find out why I am not being called, the typical response is "we have someone who will do it for $xx." Most schedulers actually realize I am rural here. I appreciate that. Other times, the closings appear to be regional - so understandably no calls. I know I will probably be bashed for posting, because it's up to each notary to realize what fee they need to turn a profit. But, I really don't have much wiggle room on my fees.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 3/27/12 2:36pm
Msg #416203

It's in EVERY industry today. Undercut, Undercut is the name of the biz. The co my hubby works for lost a huge acct over a couple $$ freight cost. Service and Reliability meant nothing. It's all $ signs.

Reply by ToniK on 3/27/12 3:07pm
Msg #416206

Gas here is $4.10 for regular. But then again Loan signings are not my only source of income. I have branched off into investigations and now an Independent contractor with a company that contracts with the Federal Govt. So for me, Im always looking at ways to work from home. I only work for a few select companies that meet my fees. Any company that doesnt, isnt worth my time nor tears. There are too many opportunities out there. Grab some! I know you may love this business as I do. But there are alot of opportunities out there that you can branch off notary work.

Reply by Les_CO on 3/27/12 3:22pm
Msg #416211

I know (or know of) most of the notaries in my area, and most won’t go out the door for less than $100, and their normal charge is $125. There are a one or two that will work for $85. I figure they lose money at that fee. So when some lowball scheduler says that only pay $40 or $70 don’t necessarily believe it…they may just fishing. I’ve had some call me back when they could not find someone for less…I say sorry but booked up now. I won’t work for lowballers at any price. I want them out of this business. JMO

Reply by Phyllis Traylor on 3/27/12 3:37pm
Msg #416215

I agree with you Les. I got a call from a gentleman who wanted me to do a refi for $90, this price included edocs. The closing was in another city, and I told him what my fee was, since it was a 30 mile round trip drive, plus I charge additional for edocs. He told me thanks, and that he "may" call me back. I haven't heard from him. I thought it was odd because this company has such good reviews in Notary Rotary for meeting notary fees.

At any rate, I'm glad I stuck to my guns. I had another company call me for a closing for the same day and they have no problem paying my full fee, and it's only 5 miles from my house.

Reply by IAC on 3/27/12 4:02pm
Msg #416216

I am rural as well. I have been getting calls for $75 and I tell them have you checked gas prices lately. They say that is all they can pay, I tell them I will not undercut fellow notaries. If and they will find someone to take the job but remember, they cannot survive on low fees. Those so-called fellow notaries will fall to curb. and when they do, I have NO pity on them. Lets all be true to our profession.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 3/27/12 4:27pm
Msg #416218

Well. Les that is why I mainly

just perform general notary work. Tired of lowball, tired of being a bill collector then those low ball companies agree to meet my fee, but then don't want pay.

There are a couple I have a long term relationship that I will drop what I am doing to take their work, and occasionally a local bank calls me when their in-house notary is off or on vacation, but I have just about retired from loans. ...

Reply by Les_CO on 3/27/12 6:04pm
Msg #416235

Re: Well. Les that is why I mainly

My local UPS store does notarizations for $5 per. My local speedy messenger service will pick up and deliver any package within 25 miles for $45 will notarize for an additional $15. They have drivers that are notaries.( How they get $15 I can’t say as Colorado law says $5 per.) So I can’t come close to breaking even on general notary work. Most of mine (if I do it at all) is emergencies, and or hospital/nursing home stuff that I do for free.
The only way I can make any profit at all is to do closings, working with those Title companies and SS I have in the past, that know my expertise is still worth something.
No… no Title company today is charging the borrower less.
Yes… most now see us (NSA’s) as an ‘additional profit center’ and ‘include’ our fees in their bundled service fee charge the borrower $250/$350 pay us part of that and keep the difference (undisclosed profit). That IMO is a violation of the RESPA rules. But none of these guys give a fig for what I think.

Reply by BBuchler/CA on 3/27/12 4:40pm
Msg #416221

Experience. When I started most signing services required experience to work for them. And references. So I took the $50 jobs, not many, but I had to get my feet wet and I was willing to take the hit in my "income". So I understand that the "newbies" are willing to do it for less. That's no difference in any business. The difference becomes whether they stay in business at that rate. Most decide its either not worth it, or they raise their fees. But right behind them comes more newbies, and more low fees.

So, stop fighting that and work on getting your name to the end user, not just the signing services. Frankly I make more doing general notarizations that loan signings. I don't have to wait 30-60 days for payment, its mostly cash, takes 15 minutes not 2 hours, and there are not documents to print. Contact lawyers, banks, nursing facilities, hospitals - I get calls from these kinds of people almost every single day. I just got done doing two general calls, all cash, 20 minutes total for both and almost always get more than my fee because they are grateful for me "coming right out."

Reply by ikando on 3/27/12 4:55pm
Msg #416224

Barbara, my husband keeps asking me why I continue to take signing agent jobs, especially, like you, I can make as much or more during a month paid immediately for gnw.

The down side of the gnw is that there, too, people are starting to find the opportunity. There is one young lady who has even copied my yellow pages ad (where I get a lot of calls from older people) for her business, which gets my goat. Anyway, they will also find that offering to go "anywhere in the state" for $20 will not provide them the income they need, and they will soon drop out. I've watched it happen before.

I've been working with more and more local title and mortgage companies who provide the documents for me to pick up, I do the closing, and am paid off the HUD. I'm building that arena, while refusing to do the email blasted, low-balling "offers" I receive from points far and wide.

Reply by marilyn/PA on 3/27/12 8:45pm
Msg #416249

$2.00 per page is all that can be charge to notarize in the state of Maryland.
Can't make any money that way!!

Reply by Simone E. Lewis on 3/27/12 4:49pm
Msg #416223

No, it will not stop; I have the same problem at the end of the month. I have calls from numerous unknown signing companies looking for a notary. I flatly tell them my fee is 125.00 take it or leave it. Now if notaries can print on their own paper, legal paper being close to 70.00 a case, and half of that for letter size, use their printer buying no brand name cartridges for 70.00, use their own car paying $4.25 for a gallon of gas, drive to the borrowers and back, drive to the drop off FedEx or UPS, and spent an hour at the signing, and to top it off wait over a month to get paid, let them work for peanuts. I still see they are still charging the borrowers 250.00 for the notary, and it looks like you are getting it.

Reply by MW/VA on 3/27/12 5:34pm
Msg #416228

Unfortunately, no. My biz is down in volume, but I'm not concerned with getting more work--only accept work that pays a decent fee.
The quality of all services in this country is hurting, IMO. I encounter it everywhere. :-(

Reply by Philip Johnson on 3/27/12 5:34pm
Msg #416230

In 26 years of real estate dealings, you never met a lower

price provider? I assume you only shop at Nordstrom's, Macy's, etc. always paying full freight for everything, to do anything less would just kill you. I bet the mention of Wal-mart gives you the willies, and makes you want to vomit.

We have this about every month, someone just cannot believe there is anyone out there who charges less then they do, can offer the same service as they do and still make a dollar doing it. News flash, since the beginning of time there has been competition, mostly on price on every good and or service offered. It is always the established, who wants something done to stop that unfair competition, and let them continue their lucrative business.

Careful out there Snowflake instead of meeting your Waterloo of competition, you may someday meet your Wal-mart of competition, and like Ben Franklin, Woolworth's, and countless others, you'll just be a sweet memory.

Reply by MW/VA on 3/27/12 5:37pm
Msg #416231

Great analogy, Philip! :-) n/m

Reply by ikando on 3/27/12 6:01pm
Msg #416234

Re: In 26 years of real estate dealings, you never met a lower

But Philip, in the day, Ben Franklin and Woolworth's WERE the Wal-Mart.

Being a person who has little interest in spending more than I need to, I fully understand the price competition factor. However, I have cut my expenses (meaning I never shop Macy's or Nordstrom's; more frequently Big Lots and Burlington), and have little room for further cuts. As I see it, those who have less cost by using their employer's equipment and supplies, or those who are only asking for "extra" money as a supplement and are not in the business for a livelihood, are the ones who are taking the low ballers' offers. I just cannot justify my time, energy, fuel and other expenses to wait indefinitely for pocket change.

That's my take. But if you want to accept less because you choose to subsidize them with your efforts for little pay and encourage the lowering of reasonable fees, that's your option.

Reply by gowithn/TN on 3/27/12 6:42pm
Msg #416238

Re: In 26 years of real estate dealings, you never met a lower

Well said, ikando!

Reply by Philip Johnson on 3/27/12 8:32pm
Msg #416245

Only one employee here, and is he a cad?

I wish there were an employer's printer,copier,supplies, etc. to use, but sadly there isn't. There's just me, and I am out here competing with anyone who comes along. As an example I used to do a lot of Servicelink/Nationallink, but I came up just a bit expensive for them, so some other person got the account. That's life.

What good is it to come on a site and kvetch that somebody out there is doing it cheaper then I am? Then turn around and wish that they and everybody doing this would adhere to a minimum fee, so that we are not subsidizing the man.

I guess, I'd say Man/Woman up, and get out there and compete. If you get beat by someone, chin up, and move forward.

Reply by MW/VA on 3/27/12 8:42pm
Msg #416247

I've also learned the important lesson in life that price

isn't everything. Quality usually comes at a price, but often offers more long-term value.
I think the same is true of this biz or any other. I didn't set my biz up on a Wal-Mart model, and I'm doing very well offering high-quality rather than discounted services. Like any other competitive market, there's room for both. :-)

Reply by NJDiva on 3/27/12 9:10pm
Msg #416252

I'm with ikando too! n/m

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 3/27/12 6:58pm
Msg #416239

That is why I am no longer put all my eggs in one basket!

A smart notary will have other avenues of income.

Reply by Natacha Joseph on 3/27/12 9:41pm
Msg #416258

Amen Shoshana -- thank you for the reminder!

It can't hurt having other streams of income.

Reply by cawest/PA on 3/27/12 11:09pm
Msg #416269

When I meet you for coffee I will give you a few names of notaries that live between you and me and that work for 60 dollars a closing! I located 2 for sure and they are ND and Mortgage Connect favorites ... I know for a fact that one took a closing in Slatington (that is your backyard) for 60 and she comes in from the south side of Allentown ... it happens that she closed for a friend of mine and after she left Bob called me as in the borrower's package she had left a copy of her order sheet with of course her pay on it! Another one stood in line in front of me with a load of fedex's and told me ND was such a great company to work for!

Reply by NJDiva on 3/27/12 11:28pm
Msg #416276

Pathetic! Ignorance is bliss I guess! Did you give her a

clue? That's a shame, she has to do four in a day to my two. What a waste of paper, toner, printer, gas, wear & tear on car, time...on and on and on...ugh

I'm not boasting, I'm just sayin!

Reply by Jessica Seewald on 3/28/12 1:21pm
Msg #416336

at $4.25 a gallon of gas in WA and some of the worst traffic is the US, it is thoroughly frustrating that we are expected to accept signings for less than $xxx. After printing a standard pkg of over 200pgs + the copy to borrower, gas and travel time anything less than $xxx is like working to break even.

However I do find humor in the regional requests, a comment from a company,
' Of course you should be able to do this signing for $xx It's only 1" on the map' (1" is actually 100 miles one way.)

Reply by jba/fl on 3/28/12 2:07pm
Msg #416344

"1" on the map"

That is so funny! Just can't read and understand the map legend.