Posted by Inscribing Pursuits Document Service on 5/2/12 2:46pm
Msg #419641

In reply to the new fees and Inscribing Pursuits

Over the past few weeks I have received many kind emails from notaries in regards to comments and criticism regarding the new fees my company presents for notary signings. Those of you, who know me, know that I don't read the notary posts. However, due to the amount of emails I received I thought I should take a look.

I was demoralized and disheartened to read the personal attacks made by some... some who have worked with me recently, even though they have accepted orders with the new fees, they still wrote grievous comments.

You must understand that I have only one client.

I was a CNSA for six years when I was approached by my current client and asked to be their exclusive notary provider. I struggled with the prospect as I wasn't sure I wanted to be on that side of the fence. After six months I agreed to work with them. I was determined that I would not be like other signing services that I had worked for in the past.

I would have integrity, be kind to people, and considerate to them. I would be fair and compensate them for travel, urgency, and inconvenience. In return I received prompt, efficient, and professional mobile notary service.

If for any reason my client won't pay a notary because they did not complete the job accurately, didn't fax as required, or simply missed a stamp, I pay them their full fee out of my own profits -- even though I didn't bill my client, I pay the notary out of my funds.

I have always paid notaries on time for the full amount. I have always paid with in thirty days, usually sooner than that. I don't hold notary payments. It isn't my money - it’s yours. We are a team and work together, not FOR each other. I've always ran my business that way. I've worked very hard at having a good reputation, to be known as reputable, ethical, and fair.

My one and only client have determined the new fees and are enforcing it. I tried by best to talk them out of it but they told me if I didn't accept the new fees they would find another signing service that would. I regretted the change but agreed to try. They have put me on a budget. They will not bend in their pricing.

I'm sorry to lose those who will not accept the new fees but I have no control over how much my client is willing to spend for notary fees.

I am considering closing my business. I don’t think I have the stomach for it.


Rikki

Reply by jnew on 5/2/12 3:10pm
Msg #419645

Sorry to here they are putting the squeeze on you. This is the unfortunate direction signing services and signing agents are facing. It is very disturbing when you do the same amount of volume as in a previous year but have to take a large percentage loss per order because the upper part of the chain decides to cut those in the lower part out of profit. If you can't make a profit, it makes no sense to continue. I wish you good luck, you deserve it.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/2/12 3:19pm
Msg #419646

Yes, I'm sorry to hear you've been put in that position too

I'd hate to see you close your business as it's been such a pleasure to work with you.

JNF - Just Not Fair.

My thoughts, prayers and best wishes for you Rikki..

Reply by Karla/WA on 5/2/12 3:29pm
Msg #419647

Fees

We see this constantly, and if the notary fee were to be placed on the GFE just like title insurance, esrow, lender fees, then none of us would be having these conversations. The fact that the title companies embed this fee in their fee is the problem.

I can't call a plumber and hope he will not charge a fee for his services or he will negotiate his fee down while my toilet is overflowing. The same should hold true here. Our services are not free, never should be free and because we have little or no control, is the reason why SS, escrow, title companies want us to be "flexible" and accept low fees.

All fees should be transparent to the BO....if the BO wants to go into the title company to signing docs, great, and the title company wants to cover those costs, so be it. BUT, if title wants us to be a partner in the closing, then they need to pay for our services.

I know this is "pie in the sky", but it's the way things should happen. I wish for the days of Countrywide when they included $225 for a single on the HUD and $325 for a double/double. Those days are gone. Borrowers never once complained about paying that fee, as they didn't have to take time off work to be at the title company by 4 pm, haul their kids there, and could have a service provided on their time schedule.

Reply by nez on 5/2/12 3:35pm
Msg #419649

Re: Fees

I think the biggest issue I have is when I see the HUD and the "signing agency" is getting the same thing they were getting last year but yet they want me to drop my fee and yes I would love for our fee to be on the HUD. They can not do this without us but you still have the ones that get excited to get their $60.00!!!!!

Reply by loancloser46 on 5/2/12 3:31pm
Msg #419648

Very sad news......Ricki is one of the few ss's that I NEVER had to follow up on payment with. I hate to see you leave the business Ricki. What really pisses me off is that the title companies are not reducing any fees they charge the borrowers. They are just trying to keep more of "our money" in their own pockets. It is a money grab. Somehow we are always low man on the totem pole. Without us there would be no closing. Do they ever consider that???? What we do has very low value to them evidently.

Reply by Cam/CA on 5/2/12 3:51pm
Msg #419653

Re: I too am very sad, Rikki has my full support. This

company makes thousands and thousands from the clients they serve and for them to be so cheap with the notary fee is a joke. I for one would not work for anyone else who gets their business.

Reply by CH2inCA on 5/2/12 3:39pm
Msg #419650

Who's the client?

I'm wondering if it would be beneficial for the signing agents to know who your client is? Would it be a good idea for signing agents to keep an eye open for the amounts listed on the HUD, related to Notary Services?
It seems to me, that we should start taking careful note of the companies that are still charging the borrower double what they pay us for our services.
Are we possibly becoming part of a scam/fraud practice, simply by not speaking up to companies that are not truthful to the borrowers?

If your client is still listing notary fees on the HUD upward of 175.00 and forcing YOU to accept less; do you still want to do business with them? I'd think a successfull SS with loyal notaries might just be able to bid for other business!!

Good Luck! I hope it all works out.

Oops almost forgot. While I am not an advocate for accepting lower fees, (bad business) I also don't agree with slamming someone's rep for my decision to accept said fees!

Reply by Cam/CA on 5/2/12 3:52pm
Msg #419654

Re: There's no TC or HUD n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/2/12 3:42pm
Msg #419651

This really is messed up... and Like others, I don't think that people should be saying bad things about Rikki. She had a business decision to make, and it hurts. Unfortunately, it also hurts her service providers, too.

These companies don't care that our expenses our rising dramatically and then bully us in to taking lower fees. That, too, is a business decision and it's hard for some of us, too, to turn down work... but when it comes down to it, we can't take those lower fees and still remain in business.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/2/12 3:44pm
Msg #419652

BTW... I didn't mean to insinuate the Rikki was bullying people... I meant the TC's and Banks who are cutting their fees to the third party providers.

Reply by NJDiva on 5/2/12 4:08pm
Msg #419657

Just so everyone knows, the company Rikki deals with

does not have or deal with HUD's. They are not typical refinances so we are not paid off of a HUD.

Reply by Karla/WA on 5/2/12 3:59pm
Msg #419655

Rikki,
I've never had the privilege working for your company and it sounds like you want to create a business that is a true partnership. With that said, your client (be it a lender or title company), is the one dictating the structure and you're in the position to have to squeeze to get the job done (while attracting good quality notaries). A tough job.....

It's the LO that holds the key. They have the ability to include a base fee on the GFE for loan signing. They want to get their commission and they do, with the click of a button and a notification to the borrower what that loan will cost. The problem is they focus on their fee and leave "all the closing to escrow and title." I have so many LO telling me that I do such a great job and they want to use my services, then I tell them they need to tell their title/escrow company to call me for the closing (this is after I've provided them my business card which they asked for). Do I get the call? No...the LO then allows one of the most important aspects of the refinance to be determined by money....the lower they can pay, the more that stays in their pocket.

LO have got to CARE who closes their loans. They have got to fight to ensure on that last day to sign that indeed their loan will be credited to that month's production.

All would be solved if the GFE were notated with $150 for notary (or whatever), rather than buried in the escrow fees.

Reply by jnew on 5/2/12 4:45pm
Msg #419660

Unfortunately, Karla, I see the trend going just the opposite way. The Hud 1 in use prior to 2007 actually had an item line for notary services. The GFE and HUD 1 in use now has all lender title and closing charges bundled on the GFE in one line and one charge listed on the HUD 1 under 1101 with the closing fee broken down on 1102. Even under the old form the title company could show all charges paid directly to themselves on the HUD 1 without disclosing who actually performed the notary services. Sometimes you would see the name of the signing service on the notary line and the actual signing agent would not be disclosed. That was the point where you could see how truthful the signing service was about fees, especially when they are being paid in full on the HUD. I think your idea would work if the notary signing agent would be paid as a third party payee on the 1300 section. Since the notary signing fee is no longer in the 1100 section, it would be helpful for the borrower to know how much the smiling face that appears at their doorstep is actually compensated for her efforts. The signing service dilemna might still not be solved since they were the contracted third party and would be paid on the HUD (1300) instead of the signing agent. The only advantage to the signing agent is that he could look at the HUD and see how much the borrower paid for the signing fee and could compare the amount that the signing service will be paying to the signing agent from the disbursed amount. The LO should try to keep the costs reasonable to the borrower, so I don't know how much a loyal relationship to a signing agent will cut through the title company and signing service layers. I do like your idea though.

Reply by aanotary on 5/2/12 4:01pm
Msg #419656

I agree with everyone that said Rikki is terrific! The REALLY pathetic part is this- my experience with her is that she only has structured settlement signings ( or at least that is the only type I have completed for her)- her client is grabbing 60 or 66 cents on the dollar of these people's money. I am always amazed when I leave on of these signings how much money these people are willing to give away?. The greed of the company using Rikki is immense. So it really does not surprise me that they want to keep even more of the money. They squeeze the client- so why not squeeze Rikki and the notary! Not only that- usually these salesman are all over the phone- real nervous calling to see if the person signed and they want the papers immediately faxed-God forbid someone changes their mind-their attitude really is " it's my money and I want it now" - except it isn't. I don't really like doing these type of signings and the only reason I do them- is because Rikki is so sweet .

Reply by Linda Juenger on 5/2/12 4:09pm
Msg #419658

I did one of those structured settlement's for Rikki and it did not close. I was paid a measly $30 for it. I vowed never again. Rikki may be a very sweet lady (she was when we talked) and my heart goes out to her for something out of her control, but this was ridiculous. She made nothing on this deal and I broke even for my time and trouble. 2 wrongs don't make a right. She probably loses a lot when the deal goes sour and why does she want to continue doing this is beyond me. I say let em go Rikki. Not worth it.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 5/2/12 5:56pm
Msg #419669

Here is part of the problem

I had an e-mail for a refi for $90. The SS at the bottom stated that they are a 5 star company. So I looked in SC and sure enough they did have a 5 or rather 4 and 1/2 star. My first thought was why would anyone give a co. this kind of rating. This is what hurts the industry. If title companies see this, the notaries that rate these lowballers have sent a message that we will work for beans and praise the SS along the way. These SS go and take away the better SS's business such as Rikki. Why not? They say to the title company, look we are a 5 star business and can provide the notaries. It just keeps spiraling lower and lower with the blessings of those that keep posting in their favor for lower fees. The only way this is going to end is when the middleman bows out and the notaries work directly with title once again.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/2/12 6:45pm
Msg #419677

I don’t mean to be critical but it sounds to me like you have found out that your business plan for your hobby didn’t work out. You can’t be successful in business if you let your client set your fees. You must set your fees based on your costs, PLUS some profit. If not you will fail. The same is true for us notaries if we take business at a loss we will soon fail. I suggest you re-think your business plan, drop your current client and go searching for others. If you can’t market your service then it’s time to say bye-bye. Don’t ask us notaries to take on your jobs at a loss, and then subsequently fail too because you have failed to properly run your business. JMO

Reply by HisHughness on 5/2/12 7:07pm
Msg #419681

Well, now, lessee...

***it sounds to me like you have found out that your business plan for your hobby didn’t work out.***

This woman has been in business from May 2008 until March 2012 -- four years -- with 4 and 5 star ratings all the way and the fervent support of those with whom she worked. That "hobby" seemed to work out just fine for her until there was a sea change in the business climate in which she operated. I daresay her "hobby" was far more productive than those whose hobby is finding fault where none is in evidence and making snarky comments.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/2/12 7:21pm
Msg #419682

Hugh, you cannot see the forest for the tree(s)

I agree with Les/CO. Here's the tree: <<<I don’t mean to be critical but it sounds to me like you have found out that your business plan for your hobby didn’t work out.>>>

Here's the forest: <<<You can’t be successful in business if you let your client set your fees. You must set your fees based on your costs, PLUS some profit. If not you will fail. The same is true for us notaries if we take business at a loss we will soon fail. I suggest you re-think your business plan, drop your current client and go searching for others. If you can’t market your service then it’s time to say bye-bye. Don’t ask us notaries to take on your jobs at a loss, and then subsequently fail too because you have failed to properly run your business.>>>

Reply by Les_CO on 5/2/12 7:48pm
Msg #419688

Re: Well, now, lessee...

Hugh…FYO….JMO means Just My Opinion.
It is also my opinion that many here as NSA’s and some wanabe SS’s that operate as a ‘hobby’. They have other jobs, are part time, or work when it suits them. Some notaries “farm out” work to others keeping a percentage for themselves as a pseudo SS? And some have been doing this sort of a semi-job/business for years.
I have nothing against Ricci or her company. I have never worked for them. Apparently she is a great and wonderful person…just perhaps in the wrong business?
I have heard that perhaps an ancient scrivener in Texas actually does this notary work as a lark rather than a profession?

Reply by HisHughness on 5/2/12 8:55pm
Msg #419701

Re: Well, now, lessee...

***Apparently she is a great and wonderful person…just perhaps in the wrong business?***

This is not my squabble; I've never worked with Inscribing Pursuits, and had never heard of the company till this thread. But your whole premise -- and that of your echo chamber above --that the proprietor is somehow not a good businessperson is patently belied by the facts. She operated what aparently was a profitable, well-received and reputable company for four years. That is probably greater than the length of time that most NSAs on this board have been around.

Two months ago -- that's only 1/28th of the time she has been in business -- the entire business climate in which she operated changed. That makes what she had been doing a hobby? It means she has been in the wrong business for the past four years? I want some of that Colorado ganja you've been smoking, though I'd prefer it folded into brownies, please.

*** I have heard that perhaps an ancient scrivener in Texas actually does this notary work as a lark rather than a profession?***

I don't know about other ancient scriveners who do this work, but I do it because it keeps me out of biker bars and away from loose women during those times when I am not napping or practicing curmudgeonry.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/2/12 9:31pm
Msg #419708

Re: Well, now, lessee...

Or she is a nice personable lady with good intentions that started an undercapitalized business, fell into a couple of clients when times were good, was so busy running her newfound business that she forgot to, or was too busy to market her service and seek new clients. Times changed, she didn’t; and now asks us to absorb her losses, to our detriment, by agreeing to unacceptable fees?
FYI there have been hundreds of Companies, and individuals, some worth millions that have not been able to weather the current downturn in the Real Estate, Lending, and Title business. They are no longer here.
I wish Ricci well, but IMO she needs a NEW plan. Asking others to eat her loses is not going to work.
Got to watch those biker bars! Better late docs than that. Do you trade notary work for piercings, or tats?

Reply by MW/VA on 5/2/12 7:45pm
Msg #419686

It's good for you to present your side of things, Rikki.

Those of us who have worked with you know you've always been the best to work with.
That co. who's low-balling you is just plain lousy. We know they make big profits on that product. You've always compensated us fairly, because these are often transactions that take us to places that are less than "comfortable" situations.
Thanks for everything, Rikki, and the best to you whatever you decide to do.
Yes, the biz has changed and isn't a lot of fun anymore. :-(

Reply by kathy/ca on 5/2/12 8:10pm
Msg #419691

"Yes, the biz has changed and isn't a lot of fun anymore." I

couldn't agree more! This USED to be a great business for an independent contractor and also very profitable but that has all changed over the last couple years. I had a great 7 years but not anymore!

Reply by ME/NJ on 5/2/12 8:20pm
Msg #419695

Rikki is a great person, she will go on

Know why? Far more notaries out there you can imagine, that is why the fee's are going down and will keep going down. Throw a dart and you hit ten notaries, small percentage use this board and if you're not willing to change with the flow you will be out of the picture.

Pound your chest all you want, volume from high paying companies are dropping. Yes would love to make my standard fee and grab it when I can, but times have changed.

Reply by NJDiva on 5/2/12 8:44pm
Msg #419699

I wouldn't go so far as to say THAT Mike...

"if you're not willing to change with the flow you will be out of the picture". And it's really too bad that you feel that way.

The desperate will pick up the crap and spend far more overhead but they can't take them all; so they can do double time, pay double for overhead and I'll pick up the overload and STILL make the same amount or more than the people getting suckered into lowballers.

Reply by ME/NJ on 5/2/12 8:48pm
Msg #419700

25K Notaries in ocean county 2000 in toms river alone

How many in your county? The numbers are unreal. Years ago CA was so bad it came out to 4 notaries per block based on the numbers.

Reply by ME/NJ on 5/2/12 9:02pm
Msg #419704

NJ has 22 notaries per square mile and 35% NJ not developed. n/m

Reply by Clem/CA on 5/2/12 8:57pm
Msg #419702

I have never worked for, "with", you, but I have run a couple of businesses. One of the things I learned is that things change. The only trouble I got in was that I based my business on income from too few clients. They got the best service they ever had! I took care of them. My mistake was that I only had a couple of clients! I needed to expand my income base. As a notary I would not dream of only depending on one Title Co. to fit my needs. I see your depending on one income stream as your downfall. I hope that with the comments I see here, that you are able to get that expanded income stream that will take you on with you quest.

Reply by NJDiva on 5/3/12 3:59pm
Msg #419778

What people are not getting (I guess) is that Rikki (not

ricci, my friend Les) did not get into the SS business. She is an SS for one client who presented her with an offer she could not refuse.

She is/was an NSA, just like the rest of us. She didn't go LOOKING to start an SS or to serve in the capacity of an SS; a certain proposition was made and she took it. Unfortunately for her, she put her eggs all in one basket with this one particular company who she was loyal to, worked her butt off for and who got abused with no appreciation or respect...oh wait, am I talking about HER or US?!!!

Seems to me like she jumped from the frying pan into the fire. I don't know how much profit she was making from working exclusively with this company, but knowing how generous she is, I would venture to say she wasn't in it to become rich. She enjoyed giving back and was proud of the fact that she was well respected and was able to give us what she KNEW we deserved. It felt good to her, and she worked HARD for that reputation. If I was making as much as I am as an NSA , could work from home, and didn't have to deal with the crap we have to deal with, I'm not so sure I wouldn't have jumped on that proposition as well (I'm also not so sure she realized what she would have to deal with from THEM! Just imagine how much disrespect we get (from many companies and people) and times it by 2.)

Look, I don't want anyone to feel sorry for her, but how about at least have and give some COMPASSION. She's not an SS. She was providing a service for a company for a number of years as an upstanding, ethical, magnanimous PERSON! She's not an SS, she is a PERSON.

What really s**ks is that her business will ultimately go to a company that will not provide what she was able, willing and wanted to give us. I don't need to continue to sing her praises because I've already made it clear how I feel, but what is really sad is that the company that will inevitably subjugate her business will not be offering us the same amount of pay for a packet of 30-40 pages. We'll be lucky if they pay us $30-40 the way these scum bag companies GOUGE our pay.

You think this business is deteriorating NOW...this is just a set up FOR it to become the NORM!!!

Besides, she is willing to pay for a 30-40 page package what MANY notaries are taking for 150 PAGE PACKAGES (not including bo's copy!)

One final thing (I hope), if you don't want to work for her that's fine (again, I'm not advocating that ANYONE do so!!!), BUT DON'T just NOT show up or call 2 hours before to cancel. SHE DOESN'T DESERVE THAT! If you don't want it, DON'T TAKE IT!!!

I understand that it happens in this business. Please don't respond with that comment!!!!! But when you've been in business for a number of years and it very seldom happened, then all of a sudden there is a drastic change that people don't agree with and it starts happening, then I know I would feel like people may be intentionally trying to sabotage me. Okay, so maybe it's because she is unable to employ the elite level of notaries that she was blessed enough to have when things were good for her, but still, I want to implore people to have some consideration and the decency to give to her what she gave us for so many years...RESPECT AND HONOR!!!!

I'll tell you what, I really wish she would tell me the people that do that because I would call you out so fast and post it here, your head would spin!!! Okay, so enough Soprano's talk from me! Besides, she would never do that! She is way too ethical, has too much class and is a true professional through and through!

Just like PAW, she could teach MANY of us here a few things!!!

Please, no more trash talk folks. Let's just let it go!!! She needs prayers as her mother recently passed and this is just the topping on the cake.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/3/12 8:26pm
Msg #419812

Re: What people are not getting (I guess) is that Rikki (not

Okay… I retract some of the things I said in my posts… Firstly please be advised that I have never worked with her or her company and the only information I have is from posts here.
Secondly I apologize for the misspelled name (Rikki?)
Next, when reading her post I assumed that she was running a Signing Company and making certain decisions on her own behalf.
After reading your post, and re-reading hers, I gather that she, and her company (Inscribing Pursuits Document Service) are simply sub-contractors, work at home ‘schedulers’ if you will, for another company. Really defacto employees working for and with instructions of others. That the final decisions do/ did not really rest with her. They send her assignments, she schedules, and does other follow up and paperwork, thru her company on their behalf. This changes my entire perspective. The fees offered do not come from her. Her boss (if you will) now says we pay this, tell the (lowly) notaries to take it or leave it. She may be a nice person, and pleasant to speak with but for me….I’ll leave it.

Reply by FeliseSoCal on 5/3/12 4:48pm
Msg #419787

It's sad for your Rikki, but your client should be educated that $75 a closing is not realistic or a liveable wage for a mobile notary who is also processing the docs.

Anyone working for that rate is either a newbie with little experience (wake up and smell the redraw), or printing the docs at work and taking advantage of their employer.

$75 is absurd. Escrows charge that much just as a line item for "document processing". Passing their expenses on to the notary, and expecting them to work for less than peanuts will not save them money. You get what you pay for. Redraws are costly.

Gas is expensive and we are independent contractors paying self employment tax in addition to supplies. Anyone working for that fee will soon find that it is not profitable. I'm confident there are still many clients willing to pay decent fees and I save my time, energy, and resources for them.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/3/12 8:50pm
Msg #419817

Rikki, I'm so sorry you're going through this - as if you haven't had enough to deal with lately! But now you obviously have some tough decisions to make. You obviously can't go back and undo any decisions made in the past (like having all your eggs in one basket with one client, for example), but you may be able to look back, learn some lessons and try to do things differently going forward.

You've apparently already identified a couple of choices, one being to go along with what this client is requiring by reducing the fees you can pay to notaries. Another is to, as you put it, "clos[e] my business", which I assume means you would go back to being an NSA. IMO, there's also a third choice, which, at first glance at least, may be the most difficult one: to go find new clients who will pay you enough for you to continue to provide the level of service you have done in the past to both your existing client and your contractors.

Think about it... You already have a couple of the most hard-to-come-by assets in this business: a great reputation and a data base of quality NSAs who think the world of you, would be happy to work for you for a fair fee, and who would provide your future clients top-quality service! In my mind, that could put you way ahead of tons of other SS's out there competing for business who would give their eye teeth to have what you already have. After all, how many can claim that they have a nearly 5 star rating? Precious few!

Am I suggesting that this would be easy? Certainly not. It might mean completely leaving your comfort zone and learning some - if not many - new skills. Change is very difficult, but not impossible. But only you know the full story of your circumstances and what you're having to deal with, what your dreams are for your and your family's future, and what is or isn't worth it to you. But please realize that every notary in your data base has to regularly make a similar decision regarding the worth of any particular assignment, based on *their* own personal circumstances.

This is presented strictly as food for thought, not as a judgment for what I think you should do, because I have no idea. But I wish you much success with whatever choice(s) you decide to make.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 7/14/13 4:51am
Msg #476762

NOT paying within 30 days at this time, maybe in the past?

"I have always paid notaries on time for the full amount. I have always paid with in thirty days, usually sooner than that."

You took 63 days to pay me on the recent signing request I accepted from your company (Signing 05/04/13 payment received 07/06/13).

You did meet my fees, but I do not agree to work for any company that takes longer than 30 days to pay; at least not knowingly.