Posted by Les_CO on 5/22/12 4:22pm
Msg #421544

Please be advised

To those out there that may be uninformed, or misinformed. Please be advised that there ARE honest, knowledgeable, good, reputable, fair, and quick (less than 30 days) paying, helpful Signing, and Title Companies out there. They offer work to many of us every single day. These people know the business, live in this country, can (and will) provide references (business/banking/vendor) are legitimate (have addresses, are filed with the State/County/City) and view us NSA’s as their “PARTNERS” without which they would not be able to conduct their current business. They KNOW we are necessary, they respect our profession, and if they get to know us, as individuals. PLEASE! Don’t work for these other, greedy, disrespectful, dishonest, uncaring, deadbeat/ lowball companies. To work for these people just facilitates, encourages, and enables them to continue to cheat, and steal from your brother Notaries. If you/we say NO to these guys we will all eventually get calls, and more calls from the good guys. You don’t have to work at a loss, you don’t have to work for nothing, you don’t have to just maybe break even. It IS possible to work in this business and make a profit, AND NOT have to chase your money for months. AND it’s EASY…….Just say no to the deadbeats, and YES to the good guys. If you aren’t sure…say: “No, sorry I’m booked.” Then check them out…if they check out… call’um back, thank them for considering you and tell them they are on your top priority list from now on and to please call you if they need good experienced help in your area in the future. If they are lowball/deadbeats you just saved yourself some time and some money.
Sorry about the rant, but with seeing all these new SS and ‘paralegal’ (in name only) and ‘mortgage’ (in name only) companies popping up and in seeing some of the comments here I just can’t help myself. REMEMBER…you are extending credit to these people…don’t do that to complete strangers, or those that aren’t credit worthy. JMO

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/22/12 4:51pm
Msg #421549

Very well stated, Les!

Reply by James Dawson on 5/22/12 4:52pm
Msg #421550

Ditto! n/m

Reply by snowflake/PA on 5/22/12 4:57pm
Msg #421553

Re: Ditto what James said and hopefully a big welcome

back to NotRot! Great photo.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 5/22/12 5:09pm
Msg #421554

Don't be fooled... James has been lurking here the whole

time... He posted now because he wants the big "welcomes" and "miss yous".

Not getting them from me.

MHO

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/22/12 5:44pm
Msg #421559

HUH?!?! What does James' reading here without posting

have to do with the price of tea in China? Absolutely nothing. And what difference does it make that he (or anyone else) reads only and doesn't post for awhile and now posts?!?! Absolutely nothing. Let's not muddy the thread with baloney......stick to the topic at hand which is the OP.

Reply by jba/fl on 5/22/12 5:52pm
Msg #421560

Thumbs up! Wish we had the feature. n/m

Reply by Les_CO on 5/22/12 9:05pm
Msg #421573

Re: Don't be fooled... James has been lurking here the whole

MHO? My Humble Opinion? Where does humble come in? If I were to guess many more miss James’s posts, and opinions than missed yours when you ‘left’ for awhile, or if you left again would miss the self-promotion of your notary classes, and your disparaging remarks and open distain for those of that actually do work as Notary Signing Agents, and are not a go-for in some lawyer’s office. Just MY humble opinion!

Reply by NJDiva on 5/22/12 10:01pm
Msg #421579

I'm very humble too...I'd like to think my opinions...

were too. Unfortunately, I'm sure they don't come out as such...lmao

Not to pick on you Robert, but since you started in with James for no apparent (CURRENT) reason, I'm just going to recognize your brain littered with knowledge and your head filled with EGOTISM!!! But I guess we ALL have our faults and failings huh? lmao

Since I've not really seen Robert posting much lately, I'll have to say that, James you should feel very special that it was YOU who initiated his reappearance.

Welcome back James. Been thinking about you!!! I hope all is well.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 5/23/12 6:04am
Msg #421600

People who like to play the race card are not welcome IMO

A quick search of this forum will reveal how James claims that we gang up on him because of his race. Sheer nonsense.

And Les- I dont get any promotion for my notary classes from this board. Despite what some think I do not use this board as a tool for self promotion. As far as I know, no one on NR has purchased my
book nor attended my class.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/23/12 8:17am
Msg #421609

Re: People who like to play the race card are not welcome IMO

I don’t recall seeing that/those post(s) from James?
I would expect that most that post and read here are already notaries and would not need your guidance to becomes such. I wonder how it is that I and many others here even know about your marketing efforts. I have certainly never researched on how to become a Florida Notary Public.
I will give you this I do think that you possess a thorough knowledge of the Florida laws/rules governing general notary work in Florida, and have been helpful to those asking about them. I don’t quite understand your apparent attitude towards those of us that need to know more than just notarial laws to do our jobs as “notary signing agents” and your apparent distain for that part of notarial related work.
If I was a bit critical, or harsh in my post to you I apologize. I suppose I was being defensive for someone that doesn’t need my defense.
I for one do miss James’s posts’ and his contributions here.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/23/12 9:09am
Msg #421615

I disagree with you Robert...and who are you to decide

who is welcome here and who is not? They may not be welcome into your world but this forum is not just YOUR world.

And although you may not realize it, you do self-promote - almost every response you make in any debate here on any issue begins with a statement of your credentials, your classes and your book. Maybe you haven't noticed it...but many have.

JMO

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 5/23/12 9:56am
Msg #421625

Many others do the same

Sylvia (and no offense to her because I do respect her) often begins her posts by stating that she used to teach classes.

So what? If it takes me saying that I teach classes to make people listen to me then that is what I have to do.

If you are fine with people that like to play the race card... FINE! I for one will not be reading any of James' posts.

Reply by NJDiva on 5/23/12 10:00am
Msg #421626

Re: Many others do the same

"Sylvia...often begins her posts by stating that she used to teach classes."

Key words "used to teach classes." (I wish we could underline, it's better than having to capitalize thereby looking like you're yelling) So that is not self promoting Rob! Geesh.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/23/12 11:01am
Msg #421630

Re: Many others do the same

Sylvia also at one time owned and ran a Signing Service. Local, but one of the best! A good example to others that would like to try their hand. She was successful. She left that business not because of economic reasons, but because of health and time restraints. She was highly regarded by her peers, her competition, and those lucky enough to work for her. Most here villanize all SS’s in general, none did hers. She too is missed here by many.

Robert when you learn as much as Sylvia has forgotten about this business, your opinion and comments will be taken more seriously.
JMO

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 5/23/12 11:41am
Msg #421634

Oh, please... n/m

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 5/23/12 11:55am
Msg #421638

Robert - Do you really think people will listen to you only

you say that you teach classes...?
Many people on this forum are listen to without having taught classes.
I respect integrity and reading posts, I can tell who has integrity.
You just know who has a tremendous amount of experience and choses to share.
For you, I guess your knowledge comes from a book, which is fine.
I get it...since you have difficulties getting people to listen to you, you feel that by saying ....you teach classes will get their attention.
I am of the belief that if you didn't get their attention to begin with saying that you teach classes may not work.
Robert, I don't know you personally - this is just my take.
There are many posters on this board I wouldn't mind knowing, because of their years of experience in the industry.
The ones with integrity get to me.
I am sorry if there are typos.

Stephanie

Reply by Les_CO on 5/22/12 7:16pm
Msg #421562

Re: Ditto!

Hi James!
I miss your posts, your perspective, and your well grounded opinions.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 5/22/12 8:17pm
Msg #421567

Glad to see you back

We've missed you AND seeing your wonderful art work.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 5/23/12 12:19am
Msg #421592

Whoa, James!

I knew you couldn't stay away forever! (At least I hoped you wouldn't.) And don't you look fine in your new profile picture. I'd hire you in a minute... and not necessarily just to notarize...

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 5/23/12 11:45am
Msg #421635

Hey James - I missed you.... n/m

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/22/12 5:20pm
Msg #421555

Ten Star Post, Les! n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 5/22/12 8:07pm
Msg #421565

"Like" (thumbs up)! Great post! :-) n/m

Reply by MarkF on 5/22/12 8:32pm
Msg #421569

Very well stated!

Reply by NJDiva on 5/22/12 8:47pm
Msg #421571

Couldn't have said it better maaaself!!! lol

Thank you Les for reiterating what I firmly believe and am ever so passionate about...

Reply by HisHughness on 5/22/12 9:58pm
Msg #421577

That is THAT perspective

MY advice to newcomers is to build YOUR business, not protect someone else's enterprise.

If you are contacted about an assignment, and if:
1. The fee is fair and the expectations are not out of line; and
2. There is assurance of payment (overnight, PayPal for known deadbeats)
then by all means accept the assignment.

You are not required to reduce YOUR income because some other NSA failed to take proper precautions to protect HIS income. The argument that you are helping sleazy signing agencies and the occasional unethical title company to stay in business by doing assignments for them, and thus undermining other agents, is fundamentally flawed. First, if you do drive such companies out of business, then you are <guaranteeing> the NSAs who have been shorted will never get paid. Secondly, it is simply illogical to say that you should reject a company that performs to industry standards. That is the company that you <want> to work for, and in doing so you may help establish for them that consistently adhering to ethical guidelines is the best way to run a business.

What you should not do, both for your own benefit and for the health of the profession, is accept lowball fees and/or assignments from deadbeat companies with no assurance of payment. Once those two problems have been cured, though, there is no rational reason to turn down such work.

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/22/12 10:33pm
Msg #421584

The fatal flaw in your logic....

In your own words:

"Secondly, it is simply illogical to say that you should reject a company that performs to industry standards."

They don't!!!

Reply by NJDiva on 5/22/12 10:35pm
Msg #421585

Hugh, Hugh, Hugh...I'm trying to conceive why it is

you are spewing such propaganda?

Again, I think it's just that you want to be the voice of controversy (oh, THAT and you can't stand Les and want to disparage anything he says?)

IMO it's certainly a reckless and terrible setup you are encouraging newcomers to support. IN MY OPINION (I can't even say humble since I've stated such harsh criticism.)

You know what folks, let your conscience (integrity, ethics, etc.) be your guide. Just know that you don't HAVE to build your business around unscrupulous, lying, cheating, thieves. Because as you surround yourself, so you become (are?)

It's understandable feeling desperate if you're just starting out, but you have to pay your dues to get established. It's just the way it is. It took me two years to get established and another 3-4 for it to be a thriving business. No one handed it to me, I didn't have to lower myself or my expectations. Come by it honestly and it'll come back around three fold.

If you are expecting to climb to the top and step on others to get there, I can assure you THAT will come back too. If you were misguided into thinking that's how this business works, please just know that unless you are prepared and have time to establish a good client base, you should consider either another line of business or finding a more secure job.

I'm not trying to be negative; I have no doubt that anyone who has been in this business for any substantial amount of time will support me and agree 110%.

You can listen to whatever rhetoric displayed here (I know mine is very passionate and probably oh so annoying at times...lmao). Take what you need and leave the rest.

Reply by HisHughness on 5/22/12 11:04pm
Msg #421587

Re: Hugh, Hugh, Hugh...I'm trying to conceive why it is

***you can't stand Les and want to disparage anything he says?***

The fact that Les does not have the perspicacity to recognize the occasional exceptional human being who may ultimately be headed toward canonization is really his problem, not mine, though I am always willing to include others of whatever persuasion in my empyreal ambit. I gather Les was one of those kids who, when told that something was good for him, was even more confirmed in his determination never to eat any of it.

You wish to punish companies that take advantage of NSAs by not taking their assignments, then when they <don't> take advantage of an NSA, paying a fair fee and up front, you want to punish them then also. That is neither the way to build a successful business nor to change behavior.

Sometimes, your logic escapes me. You state one opinion, I state another, yet I am the one who is attempting to generate controversy. That makes about as much sense as punishing a company when it does what is right. I have expressed before precisely what I have said in this thread, Cheryl, and on none of those occasions have I spoken with the sharpness and condemnation that you have. Why do you not identify <yourself> as the one who is stirring up controversy?

Reply by Les_CO on 5/22/12 11:38pm
Msg #421588

Re: That is THAT perspective

Hugh some simple facts:
ALL title companies that are doing or are trying to do interstate business (selling title insurance/closing loans/sales) without a brick and mortar presents need us (as Notary Signing Agents) or attorneys, or Signing Companies to arrange for us or attorneys to present their closings and get the appropriate documents signed. Courtesy closings by a ‘sister’ title companies are a thing of the past.
Without us NSA’s or attorneys these title companies would be reduced back to doing only ‘local’ business, and out of the interstate/national business entirely.
Without us NSA’s or attorneys every single Signing Company out there or that has ever been would be out of business entirely.
THEY NEED US!
AND
Our service to them not only frees up the time of their salaried people because we do the signings they don’t have to, it enables them to do more of this very lucrative interstate business,at a lower cost, and it is absolutely free! One would think any semi-intelligent business person would want the BEST, most experienced, capable, talented people to represent them, at no cost, rather than the cheapest least capable? Why? Because some now see us as an additional profit center and unethically (IMO) keep some of what they charge for our service for themselves.
Why so many deadbeats and dishonest people seem attracted to this business I can only guess. But when you say my (wishful) thinking that by working for those deadbeats that are out there enables them, and encourages them to cheat, more and more notaries again and again, thereby doing the entire business a disservice, and conversely by NOT working for them will put them out of business is just wrong. If in two weeks every notary or attorney out there refused to work for any one of these deadbeat companies they would be gone. Out of business!
The purpose of my post was not to tell, or suggest to (very) old hands like you, or those of that have been at this for some time, how to run their business. It was to inform some that apparently think they have no choice but to accept fees offered, and to wait months for payment, and risk not getting paid at all, that they don't have to. It's their business they can work for whom they want, when they want and at a fee they agree to.
There ARE good companies out there, and they need us. Why not work for them? JMO

Reply by HisHughness on 5/22/12 11:54pm
Msg #421589

Re: That is THAT perspective

I don't have a problem not accepting assignments from a company that is unwilling to pay a fair fee and/or from any company where the NSA does not have reasonable assurance of payment.

Once those two issues have been addressed, however, I think an NSA, whether veteran or neophyte, would be foolish not to accept an assignment.

The landscape of the signing agency business is so fragmented that it is simply not reasonable to expect that any sort of coordinated effort to turn away business will ever be successful. You might be marginally successful in some sort of concerted effort to create business, but not to decline it.

There are roughly 40 states that use signing agents, with a vastly different business climate from area to area. There are national sgning services and title companies, there are regional companies, and there are intrastate companies. We don't enjoy consumer protection; we are businesses serving businesses. There are no collection guarantees in any of the 40 states covering our fees. The only statutory protection we have is what every citizen has: Present compelling evidence of fraud, and you may get a prosecutor somewhere to take on your case. In all the years I have been a regular reader and contributor on this board, I have never seen that happen.

So, in that climate, I think the wisest thing for everybody to do is say no to deadbeats if they behave like deadbeats when they approach you, and yes when they behave themselves. At least that way they may ultimately get the idea that it is in THEIR best interest to conduct their businesses ethically.

Eat your veggies.

And don't forget the tofu.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/23/12 12:31am
Msg #421593

Re: That is THAT perspective

<<<I think the wisest thing for everybody to do is say no to deadbeats if they behave like deadbeats when they approach you, and yes when they behave themselves.>>>

5 Star companies - motivation for behaving = great character, ethics and integrity, looks for a polished, professional, 5 star notary to complete the signing, meets the notary's fee and pays timely, great communicators, can be reached, good after hours numbers

Deadbeats - motivation for behaving = burned too many bridges, can't get the order filled and risk losing the TC account so they have NO CHOICE but to concede, are willing to fill the order with whatever is breathing, will agree to the notary's fee then short the check <if they send it at all> or reverse the paypal, notary can only reach voicemail and the box is full, communicates solely by email, babysitting and handholding, docks the notaries fee as a ruse to lower their payment, thus leaving the notary just enough for a Happy Meal.

Deadbeats' poor track record goes beyond just the non-payment issue - they lack the fundamentals to run a 5 star company.

<<<At least that way they may ultimately get the idea that it is in THEIR best interest to conduct their businesses ethically.>>>

Hmmm, wonder if SOX in Aliso Viejo, CA; Fox SS in Pennsylvania; Speedy Closings in FL and National Notary Network in San Clemente, CA ever changed their spots and learned that idea !?!?! Curious minds (especially mine) want to know...

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/23/12 12:39am
Msg #421594

To add.....

Does it matter WHY a company behaves? I'd say yes, it does. Who do you want to align yourself with - a company that behaves because they have the integrity and honesty to behave or one that behaves because they're backed against a wall and have no other choice?

Well, like the old saying goes: When you lie down with dogs, you'll get up with fleas.

Reply by HisHughness on 5/23/12 1:00am
Msg #421596

Re: To add.....

***Well, like the old saying goes: When you lie down with dogs, you'll get up with fleas.***

That comment is offensive, Lisa. I could respond by saying that when you behave like a b!tch often enough, you actually become a b!tch. But I won't, because I'm way too laid back to ever ever use a sharp tongue. Not me. Not ever. Too bad you aren't.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/23/12 5:17pm
Msg #421661

Re: To add.....

<<<That comment is offensive, Lisa.>>>

The "dogs" referred to the deadbeat SSs.

<<<I could respond by saying that when you behave like a b!tch often enough, you actually become a b!tch. But I won't, because I'm way too laid back to ever ever use a sharp tongue. Not me. Not ever. Too bad you aren't.>>>

Yes, you *could* respond that way....and actually, you just did. By responding that way, you're addressing the messenger and not the message - which means the message was/is on point. BTW, THIS messenger doesn't give a flying fig about your personal opinion of her. Could absolutely CARE LESS what you think of her....just so you know.

Reply by NJDiva on 5/23/12 8:00pm
Msg #421670

lmao...do figs really fly? xo n/m

Reply by bfnotary on 5/23/12 8:27am
Msg #421610

Re: That is THAT perspective

"I don't have a problem not accepting assignments from a company that is unwilling to pay a fair fee and/or from any company where the NSA does not have reasonable assurance of payment.

Once those two issues have been addressed, however, I think an NSA, whether veteran or neophyte, would be foolish not to accept an assignment."

5 stars Hugh. Imo, I think if everyone accepted pay pal in advance from the companies that don't pay, they would be forced to behave. Ya never know, they could even turn into a 5 star company. I totally agree tho, that if they are lowball offers, I would never take them, unless they pay my fee. But if they meet my fees, and I have assurance of payment, there is no way I would turn it down.

Reply by NJDiva on 5/23/12 9:35am
Msg #421623

belinda, everyone knows that you support that mentality...

everyone is NOT going to go to that, and those that are not ON this board are the ones that are getting s*cre*ed.

IN MY OPINION, those companies are PREDATORS, it is NOT going to STRAIGHTEN them OUT??? UGH It is just KEEPING them in business! IT'S CONFIRMING BAD behavior. Why is that so hard to understand???? They ARE going to find UNSUSPECTING notaries!!! It's not fair and it's not right to THEM!!!! These companies are CROOKS!!! Correct me if I haven't understood what you've posted, but just like YOU, they are going to get theirs no matter HOW they have to DO IT or WHO gets victimized (not my opinion, those were your words if I understood them correctly.)

I shouldn't even honor that post with a response, but I am seriously having a PHYSICAL reaction. It's making me want to vomit!

Reply by jba/fl on 5/23/12 9:37am
Msg #421624

Then go hang over the toilet....quit shouting. n/m

Reply by NJDiva on 5/23/12 10:03am
Msg #421628

LMAO...I swear I did not know you just posted this about

yelling...I just said above that I wish we could underline (lets include bold) because I hate making it look like I'm yelling. I'm really not (well, not ALL the time...lmao)

Sorry to hurt your eyes. Thank goodness you can't (oh please can I capitalize?) hear me!

Reply by bfnotary on 5/23/12 10:01am
Msg #421627

I don't think anyone will stop you from vomiting

I Just want to add, If people get stiffed money from companies with very bad reviews for past couple years, Maybe they should get payment in advance or turn job back? The particular company I did a signing for, had bad reviews since 2010. I assured that I got paid. Maybe the notaries whom have not been paid, should have done the same? Or turned it back? I don't know, maybe just my opinion


By the way, I appreciate the shouting, it actually made me smile. (only because I say the same thing Hugh says, just in different words, and I get shouted at, Kinda funny).

Reply by NJDiva on 5/23/12 10:43am
Msg #421629

redundancy warning to those who are done with this topic lol

so what you're saying is that you're a wanna be? oh now that's something you couldn't come close ta!! lol He's in league of his own...of course I mean that in the most endearing way!! No matter how many times he suffers from those senior moments...lmao...he is still unique to anyone's comprehension...lmao

Bottom line...(just like you're a broken record, so shall I be), it's not about those you are reaching here, it's the unsuspecting victims that have no idea.

"Maybe the notaries whom have not been paid, should have done the same?" That's not fair to say-not to mention insensitive and cruel; because of their being unsuspecting victims and their loss, you are fortunate enough (did you say smart enough? Not! That idea came from here...lol) to have the knowledge to cover yourself. Besides, in case people do not read the post below, you are one of two notaries in a 50 mile radius so in order to get it filled-keep them in business- they will do whatever you want.

That is an awesome technique and probably will work for you. You should do that for every closing. Maybe that will set a precedence and prepare companies for our industry. More power to ya (except when it comes to working for lying, cheating, thieves...lmao)

But with all that said, will you please say the second paragraph out loud..type it over and over and really concentrate on that? Obviously your mind is blocking out that message...lmao

Reply by bfnotary on 5/23/12 12:01pm
Msg #421640

Re: redundancy warning to those who are done with this topic lol

For the record, look me up again honey. There may not be as many in my area, But there is more than 2 of us.... I think 9 others, Plus there are others on other sites that are not listed on this site. But in my area(which isn't a huge area), very rural and small.... 10 even is quite a few for this area. Heck it is closer for me to travel to Ny and Ohio than it is the surrounding counties in pa...


Ps. I am done with this topic for good now. You have your opinion and I have mine. And I will continue to run my business my way. Oh and I am not a wanna be. I have lots of clients for being "newer" (coming up on my 1 yr mark soon). I have never had any errors, nor any complaints about my attitude or appearance. I have had lots and lots of compliments from the borrowers too. Feel free to judge me for accepting pay pal in advance, But you have Absolutely no right to judge me other than that...

Reply by NJDiva on 5/23/12 3:04pm
Msg #421646

You've said it all! Is this really Robert? lol n/m

Reply by NJDiva on 5/23/12 11:26am
Msg #421633

PS I did just vomit...some call it vomit, others call it

ranting...it's all relative now isn't it?

Reply by Les_CO on 5/23/12 11:59am
Msg #421639

Re: That is THAT perspective/I disagree

You say:
“I think if everyone accepted pay pal in advance from the companies that don't pay, they would be forced to behave. Ya never know, they could even turn into a 5 star company. I totally agree tho, that if they are lowball offers, I would never take them, unless they pay my fee. But if they meet my fees, and I have assurance of payment, there is no way I would turn it down.”

Obviously you have little understanding of the dynamics of how a Signing Company does business. Any major legitimate Signing Company does not have the time/the ‘special’ accounting/or the need to do everything it takes to use PayPal on every assignment. To say nothing of those times when a notary forgets/misses/or just blows off an appointment, or makes a easily correctable mistake, or get’s it all wrong, or puts the UPS package in FedEx, or it’s still under the seat in the car and they went on vacation, or had an accident/ heart attack on the way to the signing. The Signing business requires a great deal of time, capital, and risk, for a very small return. The profit margin on most signings is less than 10% (for a legitimate company). One ‘bad deal’ where a notary screws up and refuses to fix the error, thereby requiring the SS to hire another notary to go and re-do the signing will eat the profit from 10 signings. One bad deal paid in advance a week could put you out of business. NO! The only people that will sometimes pay in advance are those desperate, and hoping that some unknowing notary will take the job and sing their praises here, thereby encouraging others to “just give’um a chance”. These people are NOT honest! They are predators. They are crooks. Their MO is to cheat, and steal. They will not ‘reform’. They NEED gullible notaries to ‘partner’ with them to exist. NO! If a deadbeat calls me and says look I really need you to do this one for me or I’m going to lose this Title Company I’m doing business with. I’ll pay you in advance! I really need this so I can to continue to cheat the next ten notaries that I have no intention of paying. SORRY! NO! I will, and have turned such requests down! If a guy comes to my front door wearing a ski mask and asking to borrow a crow bar so to break into my on vacation neighbors house I’m going to say NO! to that also. Please REMEMBER….. If no one would accept lowball offers, these companies would pay more. (Nations Direct does NOT offer attorneys in “Attorney States” $40 to do a signing) If no one would work for deadbeats they would be gone. If no one answered the mass e-mail “Cattle Calls” (to quote Hugh) they would stop. We have no one to blame but ourselves. My original post was to try and let those unknowing, or not thinking, know or think about this business, and the consequences of their actions. JMO

Reply by NJDiva on 5/23/12 3:12pm
Msg #421647

YOU ARE MY HERO LES! Sorry I had to yell it to the world!!!

lmao lucky for you, we're BOTH (if I had bold and underline I wouldn't need to emphasize with caps) happily married.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/23/12 12:03am
Msg #421590

Great post, Les! While I believe Hugh makes a valid point that newcomers to our field have the right to make their own decisions about what assignments to accept or reject, I think that may be a short-sighted way to look at it.

To be clear, I'm talking about the real bad apples who have chronically made it their MO to squeeze notaries hard on fees or to outright defraud them on a consistent basis. Over the long term, these companies have had a negative impact on our businesses - and that influence is continuing. They create a downward pressure on fees that reverberates throughout the entire industry.

When a ss routinely pays peanuts or doesn't pay at all, they can get away with underbidding other signing services, so who do you think is likely to get that business? Some of the good guys manage to compete on quality, etc., but when you add other pressures that are being felt throughout the loan industry, it makes it increasingly difficult.

Has anyone NOT had a good client tell them that they've had to reduce their fees "because..."? So the long-term impact of a notary deciding to accept a lower fee because they need the work now, may be that there is less good work available to them later. Which companies would you rather see survive and thrive, the good guys or the lowballers? Short term gain can mean long term pain. Sometimes you shoot yourself in the foot by short-term thinking, enabling these companies.

If they can't get anyone to accept their assignments (and I realize this is a pipe dream, but one can hope...), title companies will have to go somewhere else to get their closings assigned, or - GASP - find a notary themselves.

Virtually everything we do has long term consequences - and we can each choose to be part of the solution or part of the problem.

Reply by HisHughness on 5/23/12 12:14am
Msg #421591

I don't know how much plainer I can make this

***So the long-term impact of a notary deciding to accept a lower fee because they need the work now, may be that there is less good work available to them later.***

NOWHERE in this thread or any other have I suggested enabling lowball companies by accepting unfair fees. One more time: If a company is prepared to pay a fair fee, and payment is assured, it is foolish to reject such business.

Reply by jba/fl on 5/23/12 5:34am
Msg #421599

and payment is assured

Sox will promise to pay, fairly, in 30 days - doesn't mean they don't lie.
Speedy will promise to pay, fairly, in 30 days - doesn't mean they don't lie.
Genuine Title will promise to pay, fairly, in 30 days - doesn't mean they don't lie.

and the list goes on....and on. You are not taking in to account that there are those will promise you anything and lie. That is a reality.

Reply by HisHughness on 5/23/12 7:46am
Msg #421605

Re: and payment is assured

I said:
***There is assurance of payment (overnight, PayPal for known deadbeats)***

You said:
***You are not taking in to account that there are those will promise you anything and lie.***

I don't know how much louder I can shout it.

Reply by jba/fl on 5/23/12 7:49am
Msg #421606

Re: and payment is assured

Overnite, paypal: only if in advance of printing/signing? Or do you take their word that it will be there when you get back? If paypal won't let you have it immediately, which they don't, how can you believe that it will be there in couple of days, after you have done the work? Those that pay can, and do, take it back.

But, shouting or not, it is your business and I don't care if you put yourself out of business either. Just not my problem.

Reply by bfnotary on 5/23/12 8:41am
Msg #421612

Re: and payment is assured

Hmm. I got payment with paypal prior to receiving docs.. As soon as I received documents I transferred it to my checking account. It wasn't in my checking account till the next day.. (because of the bank), but It was gone from my paypal account.

Reply by bfnotary on 5/23/12 8:39am
Msg #421611

Re: and payment is assured

And that would be why I got paid in advance by a company with bad reviews. Due to the fact they do LIE. I assured that I got paid. (it does help for me tho, due to the fact I am in an area not overloaded with NSA's)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/23/12 2:06pm
Msg #421645

Re: and payment is assured

One point I apparently didn't get across well enough is that if these bottom-feeder companies were to lose their accounts because they couldn't get anyone to work for them, those assignments would need to be handled by some other service. So instead of jumping through hoops and transferring money out of Paypal to make sure you don't get stiffed, you could potentially be doing the exact same assignment for a class-act signing service that is a pleasure to do business with and maybe at an even higher fee.

Reply by ikando on 5/23/12 7:20am
Msg #421603

Janet, I agree completely that Les's post was great. Hugh's comments also have some validity. But my post has to do with your comment:

"Over the long term, these companies have had a negative impact on our businesses - and that influence is continuing. They create a downward pressure on fees that reverberates throughout the entire industry. "

I've been noting that every entity involved in closings lately seems to be troubled by "downward pressure"-- except the actual money lenders. It seems the banking system continues to rake in profits, yet the banks are the ones exerting pressure by lobbying for lower mandated fees to appraisers, title producers and ultimately we remote closers.

I have no solution to that problem, but I will stand by my fees in order to maintain a profitable business.

Reply by NJDiva on 5/23/12 8:06am
Msg #421608

BINGO JANET!!!!!

"When a ss routinely pays peanuts or doesn't pay at all, they can get away with underbidding other signing services, so who do you think is likely to get that business?"

"When a ss routinely pays peanuts or doesn't pay at all, they can get away with underbidding other signing services, so who do you think is likely to get that business?"

Sorry, but that deserves referencing AND repeating!! Exactly the point I usually make. Who's going to get that business if these companies UNDERBID the reputable companies?

And that's the most IMPORTANT point, IMO. That very thing happened to at LEAST two 5-star companies (that I personally work for) in the past year!!!!! A 5-star company all of a sudden started getting ONE STARS because she was forced to lower her fees as a result of underbidding. What I was told by both companies is that, they were told that if they didn't accept it, there are other companies out there that would!!!!

This is precisely why I am so adamant and passionate about the fact that if we continue to feel desperate and work for "them" ("deadbeats" just seems like too nice of a word...isn't there one more befitting?) the reputable companies are getting pushed right out.

I use this analogy because it's an easy way to see the bigger picture for the newcomer...

If a company contracts 2,000 closings a month (not uncommon, is it my fellow NR's?), and they make ONLY $25 from each one...

do the math...

that's $50,000 A MONTH!!!!!!! A MONTH!!

Reply by jba/fl on 5/23/12 9:26am
Msg #421620

Re: BINGO JANET!!!!!

Gross, not net I would guess.

The whole thing is: you cannot project what another is doing, how they are doing it, etc. Just pay attention to your own business. Let chips fall where they may....you still do not know the full story on another's. Purely conjecture at this point....and many times profit margin is less than you would guess.

I don't know how many times I have worked with someone who is obsessed with how much the owner is making instead of how to do their job better, or even just do their job.

Let it go - not your business.

Reply by 101livescan on 5/23/12 7:23am
Msg #421604

You're singing to the choir,Les. I couldn't have said it better myself! Lov the rant!

Reply by NJDiva on 5/23/12 9:19am
Msg #421618

LMAO...Hugh AGAINST the world...

sorry to gang up on you Hugh! But more so, I apologize for my terse criticism. I just don't want newbies to misconstrue what I believe your real message to be.

I have been accused of being the voice of controversy before which is why I can call it out. Takes one to know one for sure.

But I don't argue or "debate" for the sake of arguing. If I feel passionate about something, I share it (don't we all?) I'm not sure if I contradict myself, but I believe that I pretty much stay true to my convictions. However, I do reserve the right to change my mind if, in fact, I have been proven to be incorrect or as is happened with a dear company I contracted for, it was made loud and clear my position needed to be reconsidered. It's not about back pedaling, it's about thinking outside the box.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the position you're taking is that we should refrain from encouraging people NOT to accept business if in fact it's a "sure thing."

Please try and step out of the defense attorney mentality for a moment (doesn't matter if they're guilty or not, right? The goal is to defend. Could I have been misguided on that perception?) Should someone accept/purchase a stolen bike that they KNOW is stolen just because it's offered to them? How about when shoplifters go into a store, steal goods then go back and return it to get gift cards and sell them at a discount? If you don't know, that's one thing, but if you know, is that something that is acceptable in that defense?

I understand what your point is, especially since your words of support were incredibly endearing and really helped the company (person) that was devastated by the undercutting-one of my favorite 5-star companies; it just about destroyed her reputation because she is now considered a lowball company. She had to concede or be put out of business. I would never want her to go out of business because she IS one of the good guys which we want to keep, in MY opinion.

THAT truly changed my stance on how I determine if a company is a lowballer. I had to eat my words on that and apologize to Mike because he had stated that it's not necessarily "one price" fit's all, especially if it's a 35-50 page document within a 10 mile radius.

I believe that is ANOTHER point you are making.

You have a great sense of humor, Hugh, even though sometimes, let's be honest here, it is HIGHLY inappropriate in a professional forum of men AND women (voice of controversy? lol...oops, almost forgot to add IN MY OPINION).

I absolutely get and support your, often, "words of wisdom" and position on certain topics.

I'm posting this message because I don't like to personally attack anyone. It affects everyone on the board and the message is misconstrued and loses it's "voice of reason." (if only in my own mind..lmao) That is my goal and what I hope to achieve when posting.

If I offend others, it is not my intention and I hope that it will be heard as my OPINION. Though I would like to think I'm right ALL the time, unfortunately it's just outside of the realm of being human. Besides when we become perfect in this lifetime, I believe our work is done and we are taken to the TRUE "holy land up in the sky"?

Everyone have a wonderful EOM!!! Can someone tell me why EVERYONE wants to sign at 7pm on the last day of the EOM?