Posted by NJDiva on 5/14/12 3:07pm
Msg #420804

Point and sign closers are so annoying...

because what happens is I end up going to a closing of a previous "point and sign" closing and people are very confused, and can become a bit defensive, as if I'M doing something wrong...

I did a closing this morning and when I walked in I announced that "I have a great system and if you don't mind, I'm going to set us up to move right along." They looked at me rather perplexed but shrugged and agreed. I went ahead and did what I usually do as far as making sure the table is cleared and putting the chairs in the position that is most efficient for how I conduct my closings.

I took their ID's, asked for the copies and requested the check for the funds due. I then started documenting their ID's in my journal.

When they sat down and I asked them to sign my log, they again looked perplexed and asked me what it was. I almost always show them the front of my log before I hand it to them so that they can see it is my journal of notarial acts.

After they signed, they started saying back and forth, "This isn't the way we did this before." I said, what do you mean? They stated that "A couple of weeks ago we did a re-fi on a 2nd home we have and it was very informal." I said, "What does that mean?" They said, "Well, he wasn't dressed like you are (I didn't dare ask what they meant by that, ugh-jeans?, T-shirt?, that's what it sounded like to me) and he just put the documents in front of us and said sign here and then left after we signed everything." I said, He didn't notarize the documents in your presence? They stated that he didn't.

I said, "he didn't give you a brief description of what each document was?" and they stated that he did not. I told them that if it were me, I would not let anyone leave my house with signed documents that were not notarized in my presence and nor should they ever allow that. How did they know that that person had any kind of credentials to even be accessing their information? At least if they saw them sign and stamp the doc's it would give them some type of credibility.

"And as far as that goes, I wouldn't allow anyone to walk out of my house without my documents being sealed and secure in a return envelope." As I said to them, "anyone can open it if they wanted to, but at least your information wouldn't be so easily accessible. Chances are if it's in a sealed overnight envelope someone may think it's just insignificant paperwork and wouldn't waste their time."

And for those that think that we're not supposed to EXPLAIN what a document is, I am not talking about giving a legal EXPLANATION, I'm talking about knowing what the document is and giving a brief summary based on what they could actually read, so that they don't feel the NEED to read, or worse feel like they're signing blindly.

We are paid a pretty good fee to do just a few things for the borrower. Giving them peace of mind and presenting ourselves as professionals which includes our attire (be it business casual or business) is really not asking too much. If you have no respect for yourself, please at least have respect for the companies you represent and the industry in general.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, we are bringing documents to people's homes that makes them incredibly vulnerable because we are carrying every bit of information about them that there is; not to mention we are asking them to sign a contract for thousands, and most times 100's of thousands of dollars.

Of course I always say that this is just my VERY HUMBLE OPINION, but it's really not something we should have to be TOLD. Doesn't it make SENSE? What is WRONG people???

UUUGH! I'm so frustrated!!!!

Reply by MW/VA on 5/14/12 3:16pm
Msg #420807

Never apologize for doing your job the way you choose

to do it. I've never had any borrower(s) have a problem with my "method". I know there are "point & sign" folks out there. We know that's not acceptible, but the borrowers don't. We are there to provide THEM with a service, and we do that to the best of our ability. I know I have a "script" that I use for every signing. It works well & keeps things organized. Again, IMO it's always best not to criticize our competition, because we don't really know who they are & what they did.

Reply by NJDiva on 5/14/12 4:13pm
Msg #420815

This isn't about my competion though

Mar. It's about our responsibility to deliver what we are paid to do. And IMO what we are ethically obligated to provide to people, particularly in protecting their identity.

Reply by HisHughness on 5/14/12 3:25pm
Msg #420808

I have a script

It is so well-rehearsed, that if a borrower asks a question while I am delivering it, I have to go back and start the monologue over.

They generally don't ask more than one question to interrupt my opening remarks.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/14/12 4:55pm
Msg #420817

I agree with your way of conducting a closing compared to the other notary's, hands down. However, I don't think I would have have gotten into a comparison with the other notary. I would probably have just said that we all have our own way of conducting our signings and that I handle mine differently. The obvious differences will speak for themselves. Otherwise, you could risk putting either you or them into defensive mode. Not helpful, obviously.

One thing I definitely would not have done is to say that I wouldn't "let anyone leave my house" without completing the notarization or sealing the envelope, whether or not that's true. I nearly always complete the notarizations at the table. The only - rare - exception would be if there were tons of notarizations requiring attaching loose certs, I wasn't able to prep them in advance, and if they were in a big fat hurry to get somewhere. Just because we feel strongly about the way we do something doesn't mean it's the only right way. And circumstances vary. (This is NOT intended as a defense of the other guy, though!)

Also, I don't seal the package in front of people and I've never had an issue with it. I double check docs at the table and I like to do a triple check again later (even if it's at FedEx) before dropping them off - and I let them know that. There's something about a different setting (or fresh eyes?)... I hardly ever find anything, but I do find tiny little things just often enough for me to continue the practice. People seem to appreciate the thoroughness.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 5/14/12 5:09pm
Msg #420821

I agree Janet. I do 99.9% of my notarizations at the table, BUT there are those rare times when its the BORROWERS who are in such a hurry to get done that I just sign and stamp it. I fill in dates, names etc later. I also like to go through the pkg one last time before I drop, either at Fed Ex or at home where I can take my time. I never seal at the table.

I am not a point and sign notary either. I've had borrowers who have told me they have gone over everything before I got there with the LO, but I STILL go over HUD no matter what. I want to make sure its the same one they have seen. I never assume.

There has been only 1 time in almost 8 years that I put the stack of docs in front of the borrower (at his request) and I stood beside him. I pointed, he signed and flipped. That's the way HE wanted to do it. He'd been through this a hundred times he said and didn't need any help on what the docs were for. Easiest signing I ever had. lol

Reply by Chuckd80/NJ on 5/14/12 7:18pm
Msg #420832

I love a Where-Do-I-Sign Borrower!!! Get those about 4 times a month.

Reply by NJDiva on 5/14/12 7:43pm
Msg #420833

I agree with you both Linda & Janet, I tend to always agree

with Janet...tee hee

It makes sense as far as having the loose cert's and what have you, but keep in mind you all are in CA and the laws are much stricter with the verbiage.

To my knowledge, we don't use loose certs like you all do.

But Linda said something key to one of my points; "...I just sign and stamp it" At least you sign and stamp it. Bravo! At the very least, that's what we should do. Of course, that's my own opinion. And this is what I would expect if I were the bo. Which is what I said and what I told them; IF I WERE THE BO.

I think Marilyn said it, the bo's don't know any better! THAT'S the problem. It's exactly why we are responsible for doing the right thing. Signing and notarizing the doc's at the table should be a given.

I'm just venting so I don't mean to step on any toes. But I can pretty much guarantee that any of the companies out there would want the documents notarized at the table. There are some that are quite clear that they ARE to be done at the table and there is one company in particular that includes a document that you sign that actually says that you signed and notarized at the table.

I, too, have had bo's that just want to sign. So, like you Linda, I go over the terms on the 3rd page of the HUD and ask them if that's okay and if they say yes, I say then we can go ahead and sign if that's what you want to do. I still try and slip in a brief title & summary.

I don't hold their hands. I hand the doc, show them where to sign and as I start the next notarization in the pile, (I am notarizing and they are signing) I give them a brief summary of the one they are signing. Doc's are being shuffled at all times (for the most part.) It's like an assembly line. It's done efficiently and in a timely manner. For the most part, people are satisfied just getting that brief summary. It's when they aren't given it (in my experience) that it can hold up the signing and they'll start reading.

Like Hugh, and most other veteran notaries, I have it down to a science. We don't have to "point and sign" for it to be thoroughly done in a professional way.

Reply by MW/VA on 5/15/12 10:31am
Msg #420878

It all comes down to the level of service provided to the

borrowers. Most of us understand that it is our job as NSA's to "review" the docs with them. I've seen literal interpretations of "not explaining the documents" to mean we are supposed to just point & sign. My approach is to make sure the borrowers know what it is they have signed.
Issues like notarizing at the table or sealing the pkg. in front of them are not requirements. While I appreciate your passion for protecting their personal info., GLBA doesn't require that of us. IMO the docs are always in my possession, and are handled accordingly.
Thanks for sharing your views. :-)

Reply by Bear900/CA on 5/15/12 5:14pm
Msg #420921

Re: I agree with you both Linda & Janet, I tend to always agree

As do I. Although I am not a table signer (as I bet a lot in CA who are not speaking up) I have never left a customer without them feeling comfortable about the signing and have never had someone refuse to sign. I have come to the rescue of many a LO. I am one too!

I once had a signing customer who worked for a big name Title Company as a Branch manager. I used her for my own loan customers. We were glad to see each other this time in her home. After a few laughs, I just handed her the package and she immediately sat her husband down, pointed and signed away. I loved it!

Several years later, her neighbor and best friend showed up at another major title company where I met one of my loan customers. She was the signing agent. She was very smooth in getting through the loan, explaining WHAT they were signing without interpreting the loan details. I always breathe a sigh of relief when escrow company closers don’t go there and we will sometimes catch each other’s eyes in acknowledgement of that fact. She did not sign at the table, nor have a number of loan closers from major companies I use. If I am not at the table and one of my loan customers has a question, the closing agent will call me which I greatly appreciate. Please don’t comment or interpret line items in behalf of loan officers even if you know the answer. It makes it look like you’re right and the LO is wrong even if that’s the case.

When I work as a signing agent and a customer asks me questions beyond my duties as a doc signer I push them to pick up the phone and call their LO which oftentimes they do. When some have a lot of questions and it is a refinance I will have them make a list of all their questions, instructing them to call their LO the next day if need be. That instills confidence in them that you are working hard in behalf of all parties.

It must be a CA thing, but yes, we often need to add a number of certs to meet our state’s requirements. I have signed at mid-nights, during quickie lunch breaks, between operating tables, with judges, attorneys, real estate brokers, and title and escrow people and never bring my stamp. I always save a form from the package for them to complete while I review their docs a second time, and then I later review a third time and stamp the docs later. It works, people are happy and I KNOW I personally am more accurate then stamping docs in a hurry. I always tell the customers what I am doing and they like that. I recognize some states require it, CA doesn’t and each Signer should do what is required or works best for the customer and LO. For some reason 99% of the time when I leave a home we have become friends of sorts. One signing was with a doctor and we have been close friends for years now. He consults me on a lot of his business decisions. I am not out to make friends but it’s nice when they have trust and confidence in us because of the way we present ourselves.

Reply by kathy/ca on 5/15/12 11:04am
Msg #420883

I totally agree with Janet and Linda on everything they said n/m

Reply by pat/WA on 5/15/12 12:10pm
Msg #420891

Exception

One exception is the borrower who knows everything there is to know about everything and just tells you he doesn't need nor want any help. Just get on with it!

Reply by pat/WA on 5/15/12 12:23pm
Msg #420894

Re: Exception

I also use sign here stickers