Posted by Carlyle Wolding on 5/28/12 12:37pm
Msg #422053

Rate suggestions

I am new at this, have 15 yrs experience as a notary, doing trust execution, reverse mortgages, and deeds and property titles, retitling securities (trust funding). I have no idea how to set fees. Does anyone have a fee guide they can share with me?

Reply by Les_CO on 5/28/12 2:17pm
Msg #422056

For a standard e-doc (electronically received documents via computer PDF etc.) that I must receive, make two copies of, one left with the borrower one signed/notarized returned to the Title Company (via courier) If it’s within 10/20 miles, depending on the time of day, I charge $125…for my good repeat customers maybe $110. I figure to do this It takes me approximately four hours, at the least two, depending... I must get the order, I must confirm the order, I must contact the borrower, I must print the docs, and a copy, I must then drive to the signing location, get the documents signed/notarized, check the documents, (perhaps) drive back to my office, sort through the package, pull and faxback the ‘critical’ docs, re-do the package drive to the courier (FedEx/UPS) send off the package, get a receipt then go back to my office, fill out a completion report/call the LO, etc. To me this is a lot of work. More that any Title person does, or any loan officer does, and our service is absolutely necessary for the loan to close….Yet the LO makes thousands, and the title people (mostly) make a living wage, plus benefits…and they want to pay us that do more work that is absolutely requisite to the completion of the process…virtually nothing. Offering us $40 to $80, while charging the borrower hundreds. Don’t take less than your time efforts costs and expertise are worth. JMO

Reply by Eva75Eva on 5/29/12 12:52pm
Msg #422106

Well written, Les. DITTO. Amen. n/m

Reply by Mike Goodey on 5/29/12 2:29pm
Msg #422113

Gee, that is alot of time you spend on one set of docs...might try having Fedex pick up the docs.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/29/12 9:20pm
Msg #422155

I always drop the signed package at a manned store, and get a receipt for my own protection. It does take more time. Last time I checked both FedEx and UPS add a surcharge to pick up a package if it’s not at one of their regular stops. Title may not be impressed that your pick up cost them an extra $8 to $20. JMO

Reply by Pam/NM on 5/30/12 12:38pm
Msg #422189

BRAVO! Explained succinctly and without hedging! Thanks, Les!

Reply by dickb/wi on 5/28/12 2:18pm
Msg #422057

to discuss this in a forum setting carlyle is an anti trust issue and some thing we should all stay away from...each business has to set their own fees.....jmho

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/28/12 3:02pm
Msg #422059

It only goes in to the potential realm of anti-trust when we all get together and start demanding minimum fees, etc. Discussing how we reach our fees, IMO, is perfectly reasonable and even important -- especially to those who have little to no understanding of how to actually run a business.

These companies want to pay (and treat) us as if we're employees and not independent contractors. Any notary falling in to that trap won't be successful.

Every one of our fee structures will vary based on individual circumstances. For example, some notaries may need to secure child (or other loved one) care while they are out. Some live in metro areas where their gas and travel costs are lower, others (me, for example) live in a rural area with very high gas prices where a 40-90 mile round trip is not unusual.

I'm expensive, and I don't apologize for it. The companies that hire me know it and aren't bothered by it because they know what they get with me. I can tell you that $125, for me, is on the VERY low end, and there are only a few companies and circumstances where I'd accept that. BUT... if I lived elsewhere, $125 (to start) would be perfectly okay because my expenses would be lower.

What really matters isn't the total number on the invoice but in knowing your expenses first. Think of everything it takes to handle a single assignment (paper, toner, electricity, internet, cell phone, office supplies, your notary commission expenses [a big factor for CA people], time, TAXES, etc.

THEN after covering expenses, you need to factor in a PROFIT MARGIN. If all you do is cover expenses, then your aren't running a business... you have a hobby. You're doing this to make money so you must, must must factor is a profit margin. This is probably one of the biggest mistakes I see NSAs making.

I cannot stress this enough -- cover your expense and add in enough of a profit margin where you can MAKE A LIVING.

I guarantee you that the ultimate total will be way more than $85 an assignment.

Reply by MW/VA on 5/28/12 3:28pm
Msg #422062

IMO it's nothing close to anti-trust to discuss fees.

Forming a union & setting fees would be.
Each person has to establish their own fees, while remaining competitive in the marketplace.
That varies a lot by area, amt. of travel involved, etc.
That's also assuming that the OP was asking about NSA fees. GNW fees are established by the individual states. Some allow travel fees, etc., and some do not. It's always best to start with your state's notary handbook for those.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/28/12 3:37pm
Msg #422065

Re: IMO it's nothing close to anti-trust to discuss fees.

Heh, that's why I said, "potential realm" --- because I don't really think that discussing fees is anti-trust either. I think it's important, actually, so that others get an idea of what's going on in the industry.

BUt yes... fee structure should always start with state law.

Reply by MW/VA on 5/28/12 3:41pm
Msg #422067

I know, Marian. I was in agreement with your reply. n/m

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/28/12 7:42pm
Msg #422071

Agree, Marian, discussing industry norms, including fees for

services (aside from state law regarding "fee" for Notarial Acts.) State laws don't regulate plumber/electrician fees, for instance, and yet they are astoundingly similar. Same with auto repair...equally similar. Anti-trust legislation was not directed at little fishes like us in the great shark tank of Capitalism, it was directed at those mega-companies/corporations who would create monopolies that eliminate competition for necessary goods, services and commodities, like food, or societal necessities, like education.

I keep thinking about our services and all that entails, and how a fair compensation policy would enhance, rather than hinder, the entire loan industry -and- the neighbors we serve. Even the highest fee even one of us either negotiates or is offered, in my opinion, is not "gouging." The lowest, of course, is the death knell for the provider's tiny business.

While I'm not advocating one particular solution or another, the discussing of our local fees - always outside the vastly varying state fees - to me, is one way to equalize such disparate compensation for our professional work.

Industry norms work for all providers of services, from abstractors to zoologists, why not us?

Reply by HisHughness on 5/28/12 3:09pm
Msg #422060

Gas + paper + beans + cornbread + beer + profit = fee.

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/28/12 3:24pm
Msg #422061

When they call for a signing, the first thing you truly MUST know is where. So, right now--before the call, using an internet mapping program, figure out the mileage (your address to zip code) of those cities that you are willing to travel to. Now figure what it costs in both auto expenses (not just gas) and your time. This is the basis for calculating a variable fee based on travel. Meaning the same loan, printing of docs, time involved is pretty much stable, but you can lose a lot by thinking that one size fits all when it comes to mileage--or even broad-basing mileage based on county, city...lot of variables no matter where you live. (traffic, tolls, speed limits, etc.) And don't be afraid to negotiate UP from whatever they offer.

Reply by ikando on 5/28/12 4:59pm
Msg #422070

Lee is right that an idea of the area you're willing to service is necessary. Often the caller will check distance from zip to zip, which rarely takes geography, road conditions (detours, weather, etc.), into consideration. I also have a minimum hourly rate I calculate to cover the expenses other than hard costs like supplies. Most offers are made based on # of pages & miles. If you want to make a profit, YOU must know your costs.

Reply by Luckydog on 5/29/12 7:22pm
Msg #422140

Every state and area has different rates. I suggest you look up notaries in your area with 20 miles,(find a notary on here) look on their profiles and see what they are charging. If you over charge or make it complicated, they will not use you. You need to be in line with your competition.

Reply by Carolyn Breckenridge on 5/29/12 7:37pm
Msg #422146

You could check yours, if you linked your profile.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/29/12 9:24pm
Msg #422156

Unless of course your closest competition is working at a loss, in which case if you adjust your fees to theirs you will both go broke.