Posted by NJDiva on 5/31/12 10:23pm
Msg #422335

Would you revise this ack?

I did a last minute closing last Friday and of course, as is the case with last minute closings at 9pm at night, there were issues from the start. First the bo's didn't know they were scheduled to close so they were not necessarily prepared to do so.

Then, the bo (whose husband is a NBS) only has ID with her maiden name because she never changed her name to his.

The problem is that the doc's have her name as her husbands name f/k/a her MAIDEN name. She's never GONE by her husbands name and is only known as her maiden name.

All of her ID has her maiden name. Hence, on the acknowledgment I only put the name on the ID she presented.

I received the below email from title today:

"Please see the attached first page, signature page and notary acknowledgement for the Mortgage and in error, the borrower's name was acknowledged incorrectly, doesn't match the signature line. The correct way to acknowledge the borrower's name is as - "DOE" (husbands last name) F/K/A Jane "DORITO" (MAIDEN name) and "JOHN DOE" (NBS). Please correctly complete the attached new acknowledgement..."

They're saying on page one of the Mortgage doc, the name is: Jane "Doe" f/k/a Jane "Dorito" and "John Doe".

I am being told I need to revise the acknowledgment page to read the above.

If that's the case, I'm under the impression that I will be stating that she is now Jane Doe (ID please?) and was formerly known as Jane Dorito. She isn't known as Jane Doe because she never took his name. Nor is she FORMERLY known as her maiden name because that's the only name she has ever had.

Wouldn't that be A/K/A? And furthermore, wth? What would you do?

Reply by StaceyB/NJ on 5/31/12 10:44pm
Msg #422337

Personally, I'd 'blame' the company who drew up the docs. They had to have checked ID's, etc. at some point during the process and should have had the docs drawn up to properly reflect the way the wife executes her name. I've done numerous signings wherein the wife went by her maiden or other last name. Too, if the wife said, I never use my husband's last name for whatever reason, I would have stopped and called whoever sent you out there to see what they had to say. I had a closing go to redraw for the fact that a middle initial was left out on the loan docs and it was explicitly stated that it had to be in there...I was told that it was a bust -- went out the next week with revised docs. Whenever in doubt...especially since all of her ID's were in her maiden name and nothing was in married name, call...because now it's just a pain in the butt.

Last week was insane. I've found that last minute-thrown together closings often have mistakes...rush, rush and then boom, you're dead on the water anyway due to 'stupid' errors such as a last name or a darn middle initial!!!

I would so go with AKA vs FKA...don't know the relationship you have with the company, but I would point that out to them in advance of signing anything!

Reply by NJDiva on 5/31/12 10:53pm
Msg #422339

Thank you Stacey, but as I mentioned, it was after 9pm

and this title company is absolutely not available after hours. Even if people are there, they don't answer the phone.

It's really very frustrating when companies do that. They call you at 8:30 begging for a last minute closing and then no one's available to help with the inevitable issues!

A part of me wants to just say, to heck with it and just give them what they want. But ethically, I don't feel right about it.

What I want to know is if I was wrong?

How do ya'll fill in your acknowledgments in these circumstances? It's certainly not a first!!!

Reply by StaceyB/NJ on 5/31/12 11:02pm
Msg #422342

Re: Thank you Stacey, but as I mentioned, it was after 9pm

That's not right though. I work directly with title companies and always have at least one or two points of contact via their cell phone #'s in case of a question, concern, etc. For them to throw that at you last minute without 'after hours' info is just even more frustrating.

I like Buddy's suggestion -- get a copy of the marriage cert. Do they expect you to go back out to borrower's or just blindly (that's what I'm guessing) ack.? Are they giving you anything solid to at least give you a 'I'm not doing anything wrong' feeling or just saying sign? Personally I've never run into this -- maybe others have -- all of my last minutes rush crash and burn Maybe to cover your own butt, contact borrower for a copy of the marriage cert? I don't know....I do know of a source in NJ that may help...are you on Linkdin? Or whatever it is? I have a great contact who would so know how to direct you...Jersey-based of course One Jersey girl watching out for the next! Otherwise, let me pull her info and I'll message it to you...she's a great wealth of info when it comes to Jersey-based notary rules, regs, etc.

It's a tough one. Again, hate last minute closings just for reasons like this!

Reply by StaceyB/NJ on 5/31/12 11:10pm
Msg #422347

Re: Thank you Stacey, but as I mentioned, it was after 9pm

And again, it's not right to leave you without any point of contact during the time that you are at the closing table. When these issues arise, you cannot simply shut it down without someone saying - shut it down - even if you think it is the right course. Whatever company it is, I would so stress the importance of after-all contact info for future closings. I did send you a message with some info.

Reply by NJDiva on 5/31/12 11:20pm
Msg #422350

Got it! And you are preaching to the choir when it comes to

requesting someone be available after hours.lol (not that you're preaching!) Unfortunately, with these bigger companies, it's like talking to the wind.

It's like, yeah, okay, riiiiiight! Know what I mean? lol

Reply by StaceyB/NJ on 5/31/12 11:29pm
Msg #422352

Re: Got it! And you are preaching to the choir when it comes to

I know....I've been on hold for an hour given night signings when a bo wanted to question standard doc lang. yelling let's call the feds!!! Yeah...no....frustrating to no end...this would be ur ahemmm to provide u with secret after hours info... You, of course, are getting the job done...they need to extend the courtesy!!!

Reply by Buddy Young on 5/31/12 10:48pm
Msg #422338

Wow! I think that is kind of a tricky one. I believe that you did the correct thing.

From what you said I believe and you do to that they are married. I'm sure there is no doubt in your mind that they are one and the same person.

I would ask for a marrage certificate and if she could produce it, I would notarize as title asks.

Im sure with a marrage cert. you would also be convinced.

Is there an AKA in the name affidavit?

Reply by NJDiva on 5/31/12 10:55pm
Msg #422340

The signature line reads:

Jane Doe (husbands last name, not HERS) F/K/A Jane Dorito (maiden name)

She is not F/K/A because she never took his name. She is Jane Dorito.

Reply by ikando on 5/31/12 10:59pm
Msg #422341

Buddy has a good idea, but if the wife states she didn't take his name, the marriage certificate may not show Jane Doe anyway.

Reply by NJDiva on 5/31/12 11:06pm
Msg #422345

Again, she is not formerly known as her maiden name...

she is ONLY known as her maiden name since she never took his.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/31/12 11:05pm
Msg #422343

This was a refi? How does she presently hold title? If the chain of title is in her maiden (legal) name, and she does not go by her husband’s last name there should be a re-do of the docs. If she presently holds title in her husband’s last name, then I’d go ahead with the AKA…IF she wants to hold title that way from now on? This is obviously not your mistake, fault, or your call. I would agree that the notary acknowledgement must match the signature, in some form. If instructed to go ahead by title, and you are sure she is the party in question, and she’s okay with it, and understands the future problems she may have, go ahead.JMO

Reply by HisHughness on 5/31/12 11:06pm
Msg #422344

You are there to establish identity. Her identity is Jane Doe, not A/K/A Jane Dorito. Not Jane Dorito F/K/A Jane Doe. The problem is organic to the documents, and can't be cured by any kind of K/A in a notary certification.

I would have certified her as Jane Doe, as you did, and let the title company/lender worry about their end of it, which is to present correct documents.

You did what the state commissioned you to do. The title company/lender need to do what the borrowers are paying them to do.

Reply by Les_CO on 6/1/12 12:03am
Msg #422361

I too agree with Hugh, his answer was better (shorter) than mine. I still wonder how/why title prepared the docs in her married name if she has never gone by that, and if she is on title now in her maiden name?

Reply by jba/fl on 5/31/12 11:41pm
Msg #422355

I agree with Hugh on this. One way to deflect possible

criticism and make them think before they start jumping on me is to be sure in what I did according to state mandates. Then, when I do my report, I CC everyone remotely connected with the file and I state that I called x number and got no answer and left a VM, then I called Y, same action, and so on. Then, rather than abort the signing, I let them know that I did it according to the laws of my kingdom, I asked if she was on title, she said no, I used what I was given and made sure the correction agreement was signed and it is right on top with her id showing Jane (only ever known as) Dorito.

That gives them something to do after they get their coffee and before they call you. They can accuse you of nothing as you were "just doing my job" which is only as good as the paperwork they give you. Do not let them throw you under the bus - block that effort right from the start. Be sure to CC everyone, even the BO if you want. Have a written statement also with the loan docs with the bo's signature as to why you made the decision you made. Then for the resign they will pay you to go back...you will have earned it.

Document everything.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/1/12 3:13am
Msg #422363

Re: I agree with Hugh on this. One way to deflect possible

I think this is great advice and along the lines of what I would have done. If you bring the problem to their attention even before they get the docs back, then you've given them a jump on solving the problem and protected your fanny in the process.

I think looking at a marriage certificate or the presence (or lack thereof) of an AKA statement is irrelevant. The fact is that she is NOT the same person as the name on the docs if she's never changed her name, so the docs are just incorrect. In some states, I think you might be able to get away with a "WTTA" (or "Who Took Title As"), if the original docs were drawn incorrectly and somehow no one caught it.

As for changing the Ack, that would be out of the question in my state, as Lisa said below, but even in other states, they're asking you to put down a name that was not only not on her ID, it was a name she said she's never used. IMO, that's a "bass ackwards" attempt at fixing the situation.

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/1/12 12:06am
Msg #422362

A no-go in California

CA notary law does not allow for F/K/A's or A/K/A's in notarial certs (as some other states do) so if the signer cannot produce ID that has the name in the docs which the handbook (page 8, bottom of page) clearly states: "1. The individual appearing before the notary public as the signer of the document is the person *named* in the document." then it's a no-go. The docs say Jane Doe (husband's surname) and allowable gov't issued ID only says Jane Dorito (maiden name), then the signing, in CA, should be aborted.

In the OP's post, the TC is asking for something that is illegal here and to ask a notary to do something illegal, in and of itself is a crime in CA.

Reply by NJDiva on 6/1/12 6:50am
Msg #422365

Okay so I posed the question to our NJ Notary "expert"

Chrissey Ladd and she supports everything Hugh, Les, Janet and Lisa stated.

We should only include in the acknowledgment those identified with valid ID. The name on the ID must match the name on the doc's.

Reply by NJDiva on 6/1/12 6:51am
Msg #422366

oops, and I forgot JULES too! :) lol n/m

Reply by NJDiva on 6/1/12 6:55am
Msg #422367

OMGosh, now I'm feeling guilty that I left anyone out...lmao

Thank you Stacey, Buddy and ikando! We were all on the same page and that's what's important...lmao

Reply by TerrieG/CA on 6/1/12 4:04pm
Msg #422404

Re: A no-go in California

As a CA notary, I agree with LKT that this job is a full stop NO-go unless the borrowers can produce 2 credible witnesses who 1) have ID and 2) can swear Dorito is Doe etc etc.
Same applies where there are middle name mismatches etc.

Reply by Shelly_FL on 6/1/12 7:10am
Msg #422368

Does the lady have a brain and can speak for herself" n/m

Reply by Shelly_FL on 6/1/12 7:13am
Msg #422369

Re: Does the lady have a brain and can speak for herself"

Oops! hit the enter key too quickly
If she does not sign or acknowledge she is known by Jane Doe, it sounds like a Refuse to Sign. Title can not argue with that!

Reply by NJDiva on 6/1/12 7:15am
Msg #422371

lmao.l.oooops...see I misunderstood...lmao n/m

Reply by NJDiva on 6/1/12 7:14am
Msg #422370

Whaaaat? I corresponded with her personally, she does not

necessarily always participate on this site. So, um, yes, she DOES have a brain and has no problem speaking for herself.

Sorry if I respond in a like manner, but I am a bit put off by that comment (if I understood it right-if I didn't, then my apologies.)

Reply by NJDiva on 6/1/12 7:16am
Msg #422373

I thought you were talking about Chrissey...lmao n/m

Reply by Shelly_FL on 6/1/12 9:30am
Msg #422378

No problem NJDiva - my comment may not have come off as

tongue in cheek as I would have liked. My frustration is that I want to get the job done, in spite of the ineptness that seems to pervade on the other end. But at who's expense? Do I spend the extra 20-30 minutes nearly rewriting the certificates to accommodate their error or note the loose certificates attached to replace theirs? This is only after 15-20 minutes on the phone getting such rewordings accepted by whomever. This was not included in the fee I quoted. Do you renegotiate your fee for the additional services at the table? And wait or hope for the confirmation to be sent?

If the borrower does not agree with how they are being asked to sign, I am more apt to leave myself out of the equation and inform title/signing service that the borrower does not wish to sign as the documents are prepared. Period!

Reply by ikando on 6/1/12 10:29am
Msg #422380

Re: No problem NJDiva - my comment may not have come off as

Shelly, after having gone through a resign because of similar issues, I like your response. I hope I can remember it the next time a 45 minute signing turns to 1-1/2 hour because of attempts to have the docs changed at the table.

Reply by Les_CO on 6/1/12 6:19pm
Msg #422414

Re: No problem NJDiva - my comment may not have come off as

Our “other hat” is problem solver supreme!…for which we get…nothing!