Posted by Carol Graff on 5/24/12 10:43am
Msg #421717

what would you do?

A good friend of mine who is Notary had a terrible call from a SS who is her main source of bs.
First an employee called and then the "head of the company" telling her that a client a couple of weeks ago called to complain that (a) she did not explain the docs enough" and (b) refused to go to his home as he was single. He said that she tried to talk him into going to her home instead. She explained that she never asked him to go to her home, but instead asked to meet him at either a Starbucks or McDonalds near his home. It is her policy never to meet a single man alone in his home. The owner replied that she should take a self-defense class & carry pepper spray with her or they would have to terminate her contract. She was speechless and asked me my policy. I told her I also have the same policy, but have never had any problems with it. Any ideas on how she should handle this?

Reply by HisHughness on 5/24/12 10:58am
Msg #421722

As a single man, I can answer that quite passionately: I would fire her on the spot.

Ever heard the term profiling before? I intensely object to being singled out for discriminatory treatment just because I am male. If you are going to be in business, you behave as a businessperson, not as a gender.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/24/12 11:52am
Msg #421741

Much as I hate to…. I have to agree with Hugh on this one!!!

I suggest she find another line of work.

We as “mobile notary signing agents” are by job description going to have to go out in inclement weather, rush hour traffic, on to unpaved roads, or neighborhoods we don’t particularly like, to homes of single men/women, married men/women, domestic partners, those with families. And perhaps meet the clients in coffee shops, airports, and maybe hotels/motels, or even in jails. To witness signatures of those that may be of differing religions, races, ethnic groups, or color. We as Officers of the State cannot refuse to witness/notarize a signature of anyone biased on our personal preferences.

She should go get some more education, and find 9 to 5 work in a nice (married and faithful) lawyer’s office, (not Hugh’s) preferably in a secure building. JMO

Reply by MW/VA on 5/24/12 2:15pm
Msg #421758

I agree with that. Borrowers are borrowers. IMO it's a

different story if it's an unsafe location (ghetto areas, for example). There are a few neighborhoods here where a white woman shouldn't go, and I'm not racially profiling either, just stating a fact.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/24/12 2:34pm
Msg #421762

Re: I agree with that. Borrowers are borrowers. IMO it's a

I’d say when it comes to your personal safety always say no. If I get to the borrowers address and it’s a condo on the 13 floor, but the 4th thru 6th floors are ablaze, I’m not going in. But that is different than saying I don’t “do” single men in their homes.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 5/24/12 10:43pm
Msg #421817

Fire her! Thils is ridiculous behavior for a mobile notary/loan signer.

Reply by Claudia Bain on 5/24/12 1:24pm
Msg #421754

I have done tons of signings with single men. Never had a problem. Always found them polite and professional. In fact as a woman, I have had more bad experiences with single women and couples.

Reply by Shauna/WA on 5/24/12 11:00am
Msg #421723

Well, I can see why that company is the main source of bs.

My policy is that I will let my husband know the address and name of home I'm going to (single or married, don't care) and a time to expect me. If I don't call within ten minutes of that time, he's to start heading to that home and call the local police. Period.

I also carry pepper spray. BUT if she's not comfortable, then she needs to let a company know that and if they don't agree, time to let that SS go.

Reply by bfnotary on 5/24/12 11:06am
Msg #421724

I do the same thing leave addresses with my husband.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 5/24/12 11:12am
Msg #421728

I have met with plenty of single men of all ages and never once have had a problem in 7 years. However, I did have a problem one time with a single woman. Her loan wasn't what she was told and boy did she get hot. Threw the docs on the floor and told me to GET OUT. Quickly packed up my things, left the docs on the floor and headed for the door. I couldn't get out and had to call for her. She had us dead bolted in and had the key in her pocket. She huffed and puffed, unlocked the door for me and slammed it behind me. No amount of trying to reason with her worked. I tried so very hard explaining what my role in this was but she wouldn't hear of it. So, give me a single man anytime. lol And, yes I leave a copy of my confirmation with my family of where I am.

Reply by Frances Kany on 5/24/12 11:12am
Msg #421729

I agree with the other comments. After making a call to the borrower and getting a feel on if he is single or not I approach with the suggestion that we can meet at his home or if he would prefer a restaurant or other convenient location. Please realize that these people have a regular job and a fair to good income or they would not have been approved for a loan. Are they really going to jeopardize that to do you harm? I may be wrong, but in over 13 years I have never had a problem, even when going to their home. I do not accept closings that are in a BAD part of town however. I always ask for the zipcode.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 5/24/12 11:19am
Msg #421732

Frances, I also don't accept them in bad parts of our county. I feel bad though because the borrowers are probably fine. If they own their home they are responsible. But, its the element around them that scares me. I don't belong there, period.

Reply by aries/CA on 5/24/12 11:43am
Msg #421739

We are in this profession for a reason, and is to help people. We shouldn't discriminate because they are single. I have clients telling me to meet them at another place to sign, because they don't feel safe for me. I am thankful for them telling me. If is someone who looked me up on the internet and wants me to notarize something, I do have them meet me at a public place. I don' t know them, and they are not sent by a bank, lender, ss or title company.

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/24/12 11:27am
Msg #421737

A couple of weeks? Something else is going on. n/m

Reply by ikando on 5/25/12 10:20am
Msg #421843

Re: A couple of weeks? Something else is going on.

Lee, that was my first thought. Since I've had requests for information from my journal for loans that were being protested, I immediately considered that as the basis for this complaint from the signer...Not that he was single or that she had asked him to come to her home (which I would tend to doubt). Too convenient to blame the notary.

Reply by Deborah Breedlove on 5/24/12 11:50am
Msg #421740

change careers?

Maybe your friend should get into a line of work that doesn't involve meeting borrowers in their homes. I have never had a problem meeting a single man at his home, and I don't spend any time worrying about it. It's not like meeting a complete stranger. This person has been jumping through the hoops of the loan approval process and usually has a relationship with the LO. They just want to get their loan closed. The LO has told them that a notary will come to their home for the signing, so I can understand them being a little irritated. Naturally, you tell someone where you will be and take reasonable precautions, but that does not include insulting a borrower who has otherwise given you no reason to be concerned.

Reply by PublicTipic on 5/24/12 12:28pm
Msg #421745

I had a similar situation with a male borrower. I looked up the name in court records search and low and behold, he was sex offender! I immediately called the title company and advised they should send out a male NSA. You can't be too careful these days! I would let the title co/ss know that meeting in a public place is safer than at someone's home. If they don't care and tell you to take a self defense course or carry pepper spray, I would not work for them, no matter the pay. Your life and sanity is worth more. JMO

Reply by CJ on 5/24/12 1:01pm
Msg #421750

I've never had a problem.

It has never occoured to me to check to see if someone is single or not. They have gone through so much scrutiny to get the loan, I feel that they are okay. I have had guys flirt with me or ask me out, but that's all. I tell them I'm married, and that's the end of it. But even that is RARE, like once every few years. I dress dowdy: professional, and not cute or hot. I look like Mrs. Gultch: No high heals, no cleavage, no tight outfits, minimal make-up. I figure if I look like an old-fashioned school marm and I say, "Sign here", they'll obey.

I am more worried about going into bad neighborhoods. I find borrowers are nervous about me, a stranger, coming into their house. I think they are afraid I will see all their cool stuff and come back and rob them. Like I have time for that! One single guy had an electric drill by his front door. I asked him about it and he said he drills the door shut at night. Sure enough, when I left, I heard him drilling the door tight. I'm also afraid of being in a car accident, and they cart me off to the hospital, and then the docs don't get signed or dropped on time, they loose their rate lock, and it's all my fault.

Single guys aren't the only thing to be wary of: what about biting dogs, bugs (cockroaches and fleas) and snot-nosed kids sneezing boogers on you? We are hired to go into the borrowers' homes and get the signtures. I think if you are afraid of going into stranger's homes, this is not the job for you.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/24/12 2:12pm
Msg #421757

Re: CJ

I LOVE the "Sign here and they obey” concept!
Alas as an old guy that dresses professional, I often must explain the docs, and the entire process to these people that have only heard a voice on the phone. It takes time but I do it.

Reply by Barbara___IL on 5/24/12 1:01pm
Msg #421749

I would have fired her (or never called her again). That was unprofessional.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/24/12 1:03pm
Msg #421751

I do as many of the other women do... my husband has the name and location of EVERY appointment I go to. I also utilize the the Latitude feature on my android phone... which turns on my GPS locator and my husband, if he wants, can go on to his phone or to Google Maps and see where I am (or at least my phone) at any given moment. We have a safety plan in place, and it works great. I can see, though, if the notary is a single woman without a strong safety net, there could be more concerns.

Ironically, the only time I've ever had a weird vibe from a single man (and by weird vibe, I mean he was making a lame attempt to ask me out) it was during a GNW appointment, and I didn't go in his house, at his request. We stayed outside and did everything on the trunk of my car in plain view. That's not terribly unusual for me, I meet a lot of people out my way who don't like letting strangers in to their homes for a variety of reasons, so I'm always prepared to work outside. He was very nice, not creepy at all. Because I'd been losing so much weight my wedding rings were way too big so I wasn't wearing them. Once I mentioned my husband, he backed right off and even apologized. He was nice and my husband and I had a good laugh over it later.

Reply by NJDiva on 5/24/12 2:34pm
Msg #421761

I can certainly understand the concern and wanting to be

cautious. This business takes a very special type of person/personality for it to be a comfortable fit.

It is definitely okay to have a bit of healthy fear. It keeps us on our toes and diligent about not getting complacent (that's for men AND women.) The fact of the matter is that we, as women (whether you dress down or not) are more vulnerable and some sick minded individuals don't care how you look, just about getting their needs met (sorry, it is what it is.) It's not profiling, geesh.

I just went on the Sex Offender Registry for my state and am appalled at the amount of sex offenders, but more so, how many are fugitives. It's scary really.

Back in the 80's I had a friend (we were roommates at the time) who worked the midnight shift at a Tiny Giant (equivalent to a 7-11) in VA Beach. One morning I woke up and she wasn't home. I got a bad feeling, she was always very responsible. I knew something wasn't right. I called my boyfriend and asked him to go there to check on her and sure enough, the area was mobbed with police cars and was shut down. Come to find out, at around 3-4am she had been going to lock the door to take a quick restroom break and just as she turned the lock, a guy came running up to the door and asked if he could just buy a pack of cigg's. She unlocked the door, leaving the keys in the deadbolt and turned around to go back behind the counter. As she approached one of the aisles, he grabbed, tackled and dragged her into one of them and proceeded to sexually assault her for hours, using everything within reach on the shelves as well (sorry to be so graphic, but "it is what it is".) What eventually happened is that, though the police had attempted to access the store earlier, (I guess they didn't think anything of it being temporarily closed because of br breaks and stuff) when they came back (they actually went back a couple of times)later and it was still locked, they started beating on the door. When they had come before, the perpetrator had threatened her life so she didn't dare try to escape. However, when they came back the final time and started beating on the door, she knew it was now or never. She started taking items and throwing them up in the air so that the police could see she was in trouble. They ended up breaking down the door and saving her but I can assure you she was NEVER (should be underlined and bolded not full caps, I'm not yelling) the same.

If you've never been subjected to any type of violence or trauma, you may not consider the danger that lurks. We, as women always need to be vigilant in protecting ourselves and being aware of our surroundings. If you do not feel comfortable, by all means trust your instinct. But we have to know that we signed up in this business with certain responsibilities and obligations and if we are unable to fulfill them, then we must consider other options that will ensure a sense of ease and comfort.

It's easy for us to say, "fire the person." But, in my opinion I say KUDOS!!! You go girl! Our safety is paramount. And sometimes we aren't given enough information to make an informed decision to take certain closings. IMO, it doesn't make her WRONG. After all, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Maybe he wouldn't have minded. All he had to do was say no. Quite honestly, I did that one time (with the permission of the SS) and the person got very offended. I probably won't ever do it again. He told me that if I didn't feel comfortable going to his area then maybe they needed to send a man. WEEELL, huh! That set me straight! I made a decision right then and there that if I was going to take a closing, then, unless I felt I was in grave danger, I was going to follow through on my obligation and do what I was contracted to do.

However, I also take every precaution to ensure my safety just as others have pointed out. I try to always be aware of my surroundings and not take anything for granted. I walk with my head high as if I belong wherever I am. I believe that if I act afraid or uncomfortable it could set me up to be victimized. Predators can sense fear! Know that's true!!!! I do the same thing when I am in a closing. I take control of "my closing" and situate myself so that I am not "vulnerable." If anything happens then it's just the way it's supposed to be I guess. I can only take precautions. If someone wants to victimize me, they're going to no matter what I do.

This is just my opinion and experience. I hope it helps.

PS Also, there are some religions that don't allow a woman to be in the same room alone with a man. We don't know where people come from. So let's not automatically jump to judgement (myself included for sure!!!)

Reply by Les_CO on 5/24/12 3:10pm
Msg #421769

Re: I can certainly understand the concern and wanting to be

I dissagree with some of your post "If someone wants to victimize me, they're going to no matter what I do."
I'd change that "going to" to "going to try"

There are jobs and their jobs. Some may entail more risk than others. It’s your choice to do the job, and take (and prepare) for the risk involved. A lineman working for the electric company can’t say to his foreman….”I’m not going up that utility pole in a thunderstorm to restore power to that hospital, it’s too dangerous!” The job is what it is.

Some time ago I went to a Carry Concealed class here in CO. This is a class to train/prepare/allow someone to apply for a permit to carry a concealed firearm (pistol)
Six (I was astounded) of the class members were women! Five of the six were Realtors. They said holding “open houses” in a vacant house, in a strange neighborhood, with signs advertising your presents, often away from anything (here in Colorado, in the mountains, maybe on 5 to 35 acres) just gives these sexual predators a very good chance of making you their next victim. If they come in and there are people there, they leave…watch…and come back when you’re alone. BTW all the girls successfully completed the course (generally did better that the guys) and they are all (legally) armed and dangerous today. So if you want to be a “looky-loo’ at an open house don’t mess the showing agent.

Reply by NJDiva on 5/24/12 3:22pm
Msg #421770

LOL Les! In NJ, Guns are STRICTLY prohibited and banned.

If I understand correctly. It's not an option. But I would love to.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/24/12 5:09pm
Msg #421781

Re: LOL Les! In NJ, Guns are STRICTLY prohibited and banned.

Well that’s not exactly true, but it is difficult in NJ. It depends on where you live. You are mostly correct that in NJ as in many other Eastern States only criminals can have guns. Good, respectable, law abiding, non-felons, are prohibited. (Just like you must have ID, car insurance, a driver’s license, and an “illegal” needs none of this. You don’t have it? Big time fines and problems! They don’t have it...let’ um go)
When I lived in NJ I belonged to a gun club, we shot pistols in competition at a range for sport. We had to carry our guns unloaded in a lockable container, not easily accessible to and from the range.
Is there a freeholder where you live? To get a permit in NJ it’s totally arbitrary. You need to know someone (chief of police) get 3 guys (not in the garbage business) to swear to your character, and have a “need” to possess a firearm. These mostly only go to organized crime figures (bribe) or cops. You in your job certainly qualify for the need for protection (especially if you go to Newark or Camden) the big question is can you afford the bribe?

Reply by NJDiva on 5/24/12 9:19pm
Msg #421811

lol funny Les...really that's the ONLY way you'll get a gun

in this state. Concealed weapon is not even an option. It took my husbands friend, who was in security, three years to get a license (or permit, whatever it is.)

Reply by PublicTipic on 5/24/12 3:25pm
Msg #421771

Re: I can certainly understand the concern and wanting to be

Well said.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/24/12 1:17pm
Msg #421753

Single people? No problem. I draw the line at ferrets. NO

FERRETS. They look all cutsie in those hammock, but then they wake up, and weisel around being sneaky, and who knows what evil plots they plan...

People on the other hand, are much easier to read - plus, you can see them.

Reply by BossLadyMD on 5/24/12 1:55pm
Msg #421755

Agree that she is in the wrong business

People like the comfort and convenience of their home. I would part ways with her too.

Reply by JAM/CA on 5/24/12 2:22pm
Msg #421759

I have done many signings for single males over 8 years. My problem wasn't a single man. I went to do a signing for a 72 year old woman (harmless, right?). Title nor I knew her son was home from prison and did not have his legal or illegal drugs. He asked me, "who gets the house when the old lady kicks the bucket"? I responded that only his Mother could answer that question. He wasn't happy with that answer. It says on your card you are an agent. It says Notary Signing Agent.

As his daughter with a baby in her arms tried to calm him down, he proceeded to put his fist in her face. She then called police, but got put on hold, so hung up. This guy begins to threaten me and I have one exit out of the house, through him. He tells me, he will be waiting for me outside.

I look at his Mother and she says, I need this loan, pleas complete. I said, I'm shaking too badly, but we signed. Her other son came home and escorted me out of the house pass this other guy. I got in my car, locked the doors, drove two blocks, pulled over and then cried while calling my husband. Never let them see you sweat.

I did call 311 and reported what took place. Single guys, no problem. Look out for innocent little old ladies with sons out of prison. Good neighborhood and all.

Reply by Hailswath on 5/24/12 2:41pm
Msg #421764

Most states have a sex offender database and several department of corrections have information that is also available. I would have the links on my desktop and check before going to any signing if I was concerned for my safety.

Reply by Robert H. Ruston on 5/24/12 3:07pm
Msg #421768

She shouldn't have accepted the assignment!

Reply by FeliseSoCal on 5/24/12 3:37pm
Msg #421773

I don't think you should be in this line of work if you can't provide the service you're being contracted for. You should turn down the jobs if you're not comfortable...not ask the client to be inconvenienced.

I'm a female, I've been doing closings for 9 years and I have never had a problem. I also carry pepper spray. The worst that's happened is I've been hit on 3-4 times...Just handle it with tact and dress conservatively and professionally.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/24/12 3:53pm
Msg #421774

I must be an oddball...

I never ever give it a second thought...I get the assignment, get the docs and do the job - it's business. Never does it ever enter my head that I'm going to be in danger (bad neighborhoods, yes - signers, no). Nor have I ever considered checking jail records, sex offender databases, criminal records or anything like.

Been in business dealing with people for too long...I just don't give it a second thought..

Reply by Linda Juenger on 5/24/12 4:19pm
Msg #421778

Below is the VERY reason I DO NOT GO TO THIS AREA

When I am called to go to this area, this is where I direct them. There are a couple more surrounding areas that are just as bad. I will NOT go into these areas for any amt of money. It's just not worth the risk. Having said this, I always offer another location OUT of the area. Some accept, some don't. I live in a small town about 25 miles away and we have virtually NO crime at all.

With a crime rate of 154 per one thousand residents, East St. Louis has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 6. Within Illinois, more than 100% of the communities have a lower crime rate than East St. Louis.In fact, after researching dangerous places to live, NeighborhoodScout found East St. Louis to be one of the top 100 most dangerous cities in the U.S.A.

Separately, it is always interesting and important to compare a city's crime rate with those of similarly sized communities - a fair comparison as larger cities tend to have more crime. NeighborhoodScout has done just that. With a population of 27,006, East St. Louis has a combined rate of violent and property crime that is very high compared to other places of similar population size. Regardless of whether East St. Louis does well or poorly compared to all other cities and towns in the US of all sizes, compared to places with a similar population, it fares badly. Few other communities of this size have a crime rate as high as East St. Louis.

The crime data that NeighborhoodScout used for this analysis are the seven offenses from the uniform crime reports, collected by the FBI from 17,000 local law enforcement agencies, and include both violent and property crimes, combined.

Now let us turn to take a look at how East St. Louis does for violent crimes specifically, and then how it does for property crimes. This is important because the overall crime rate can be further illuminated by understanding if violent crime or property crimes (or both) are the major contributors to the general rate of crime in East St. Louis.

For East St. Louis, we found that the violent crime rate is one of the highest in the nation, across communities of all sizes (both large and small). Violent offenses tracked included forcible rape, murder and non-negligent manslaughter, armed robbery, and aggravated assault, including assault with a deadly weapon. According to NeighborhoodScout's analysis of FBI reported crime data, your chance of becoming a victim of one of these crimes in East St. Louis is one in 16.

Significantly, based on the number of murders reported by the FBI and the number of residents living in the city, NeighborhoodScout's analysis shows that East St. Louis experiences one of the higher murder rates in the nation when compared with cities and towns for all sizes of population, from the largest to the smallest.

In addition, NeighborhoodScout found that a lot of the crime that takes place in East St. Louis is property crime. Property crimes that are tracked for this analysis are burglary, larceny over fifty dollars, motor vehicle theft, and arson. In East St. Louis, your chance of becoming a victim of a property crime is one in 11, which is a rate of 93 per one thousand population.

Importantly, we found that East St. Louis has one of the highest rates of motor vehicle theft in the nation according to our analysis of FBI crime data. This is compared to communities of all sizes, from the smallest to the largest. In fact, your chance of getting your car stolen if you live in East St. Louis is one in 42.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/24/12 4:43pm
Msg #421779

Re: Below is the VERY reason I DO NOT GO TO THIS AREA

I really don’t know about the crime rate here in Castle Rock where I live. But I can guarantee you that over 90% of the households here are well armed. I sure wouldn’t want to try and break into an occupied house anywhere in my area. You may break in, but you ain’t walking out.

Reply by jba/fl on 5/24/12 4:57pm
Msg #421780

With exception to a very small area, I'm the same as LindaH

I just don't think of it. I have a couple of areas that I will not do, explain at the time of scheduling why I feel that way and get permission to do during daylight hours or at a local library or such, or I just decline the job. I have never checked public records except to find an address (property appraiser always knows where something is located w/maps).

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/24/12 5:18pm
Msg #421784

Re: With exception to a very small area, I'm the same as LindaH

I also agree with Linda....and to add, martial arts is part of my lifestyle.

Reply by Carol Graff on 5/24/12 8:20pm
Msg #421805

Thank you for all of you thoughts

I have certainly reconsidered my position on this. I bought pepper spray today and will not ask anyone (except for some GNW work) to meet me at a local Starbucks.
I LOVE THIS FORUM--having you write back so quickly is such a blessing. I told my friend and she was quite impressed as she rarely goes on this. YOU ARE ALL THE BEST!!!

Reply by FeliseSoCal on 5/24/12 9:47pm
Msg #421812

GNW is a different ballgame Carol...

I would be more cautious and ask to meet at a neutral location with random callers, unless it's a hospital or nursing home, business or bank, etc for GNW.

Loan signing clients have to jump through so many hoops to qualify... credit checks, income verificaition...they tend to be very normal, stable people. For God sake, there are copies of their ID on file with the lender. Their goal is to finish and close. I wish I had $1 for every time I heard "I started this process back in xyz...I can't believe it took this long".

My scariest closing was with a married couple. The man was totally irrate and unstable. Clearly the loan was not what he expected. He screamed at me and told me to get out and took the docs from me. I was terrified...I think the wife was too. She was obviously embarassed and I think a victim of domestic violence. Fortunately, in 9 years, that only happened once.

So...single, married...It doesn't matter to me. Actually I prefer single because it goes faster! Rely on and trust your instincts and don't live in fear

Reply by BBL on 5/25/12 1:00am
Msg #421828

Re: Thank you for all of you thoughts

I too prefer single men, more than a married couple. IT TAKES LESS TIME period. Married always chit chat...In 10+ years, I'v gone to bad areas, nice areas and many gated areas. Most of the borrowers are thankful that you're there to sign them. Only once did I feel uneasy...and the wife was rude, rude, rude! Not the husband. If you have a bad "feeling" then don't go in, but always let you family know where you are.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/24/12 5:13pm
Msg #421782

Re: I must be an oddball...

Maybe you just scare the heck out of them? Next time I'm afraid to go on a signing, can I call you to be my bodygard?

Reply by ct on 5/24/12 5:56pm
Msg #421788

Re: I must be an oddball...

Ditto Linda..In fact I love single men..in and out in a flash..single signers are a perk...

Reply by Les_CO on 5/24/12 6:06pm
Msg #421791

Re: I must be an oddball...

Wow...I hope Hugh doesn't read this post.

Reply by ArtG/KS on 5/24/12 10:47pm
Msg #421819

Re: I must be an oddball...

LOL!