Posted by Nattienotary on 11/2/12 12:48am
Msg #441780
Am I missing something?
Ok, the other day a known signing service called for a signing re:settlement docs. She told me (9) notarizations for $50.00, and the assignment was 15-20 minutes one way. What's wrong with this picture? Am I missing something here? Just wanting to get some feedback from others as to what they would have done.
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/2/12 2:56am
Msg #441783
I don't think you're missing a thing... They just want their 50% (give or take) cut of your fee for sending you the assignment. Yeah, I know! 
In all fairness, though, I have had the occasional ss (including one that's a neighbor) just refer some GNW directly to me or others without taking a cut. These are usually situations where the signers wouldn't pay enough for there to be anything worth splitting, but that's still decent of them.
| Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 11/2/12 7:04am
Msg #441792
Could the problem be the "known signing service"?
It's that "middle" man thing again. I need someone to enlighten me on this: Why do we NOT work directly for the TC? Seems like THEY'D save a lot more time/money and all the communication hassles. Is it a Corporate "thing" - like the chain of command?
Not trying to get on the "bad side" of the SS (just want to know what they've got that we don't)
| Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/2/12 7:14am
Msg #441793
Re: Could the problem be the "known signing service"?
Some TC like to use SS because it saves them the effort and time to find a notary that can do each closing. However, something has evolved over the years that just does not make sense to me. The SS cut of the fee should come out of the TC's share of the fees, not the notary's. The fee paid to the notary has been whittled down by SS to the point of ridiculousness - the SS are now bidding these jobs at what the notary should be receiving, so their cut ends up coming from the notary and not the TC.
| Reply by MistarellaFL on 11/2/12 8:09am
Msg #441799
Agency's cuts-I've said it before
I have worked for nigh onto 40 years, and 20 of those years have been for agencies.
The usual and customary cut for agencies IME has been 15-20%, outside of NSA work.
Most signing companies are seizing 50% or more of the cut!
That's unheard of in other industries.
Not to mention the lack of communication and coordination working with agencies.
How many posts have we read, where agency fails to know certain important things like type of loan, distance to travel, appropriate fees to charge the TCs and often has more than one NSA scheduled?
Until this gig, I always enjoyed working with agencies...they have their place in the workforce.
But after 9 years, "they" still are taking more than they earn, and are still high on the learning curve.
Of course, there are a few who "get it", and I applaud their companies.
We know who they are!
| Reply by HisHughness on 11/2/12 8:03am
Msg #441798
Re: Could the problem be the "known signing service"?
***(just want to know what they've got that we don't)***
This is the sixtyleventh time we have had this discussion on NotRot. Let me see if I can frame it in terms that all will understand.
Many large -- very large -- corporations do not own the real estate in which they either headquarter or from which they do business. That's not because they can't afford the bricks and mortar; they can. They simply don't want to own it. They would rather use their resources to do what they were created to do and do best: Sell insurance, replace shattered windshields, build buff bodies for people. They figure that in the long run they will make more money that way than if they have to worry about fixing the broken toilet in the ladies room of the store at 32nd Street and Peeoria Ave.
Precisely the same principle applies to title companies and signing services.
Many, perhaps most, title companies prefer to put their resources into title companying. They do not want to have to maintain databanks of signing agents, they do not want the hassle of lining up signing agents for closings, and they surely surely do not want the tribulations associated with shepherding signing agents through the closing process. So they turn all that over to a business that was created to do nothing but herd signing agents, and then they go on about the business of title companying. They figure it makes them more money that way.
I have said on this forum time and time again: There is a role for signing services, just as there is a role for wholesalers -- middlemen -- in the grocery business, electronics business, auto parts business, ad infinitum. That some signing services are jerks and commercial lepers does not change the fundamental fact that signing services themselves are an integral and probably essential part of the business we are in. We can rail all we wish about them getting <our> fees, but the inescapable fact is that they earn a fee, and they are entitled to it just as we are entitled to our fee. Note I said "a" fee, not an injust fee. And when it gets down to the lick-log, you simply are not going to persuade most title companies to inflict on themselves the onerous task of finding signing agents.
I think this is my swan song on this subject. Somebody else is going to have to take up the cudgel hereafter.
| Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 11/2/12 8:15am
Msg #441801
Re: Could the problem be the "known signing service"?
<<"they turn all that over to a business that was created to do nothing but herd signing agents">>
I feel like a Sheep!
| Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 11/2/12 8:21am
Msg #441805
Re: Could the problem be the "known signing service"?
So, is this where the idea of "farming" comes from? Where TC prefers to work with say 4 or 5 major Closers who have already built up a relationship with the notary? Is there a "place" for the farming (or sheep-herding) NSA??
| Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 11/2/12 1:36pm
Msg #441860
Re: Could the problem be the "known signing service"?
Hugh's pretty much nailed why SSs exist.
The last thing most EOs want to do is mess with NSAs: calling them, leaving messages, waiting around for them to call back f they call back at all, negotiating fees, follow up, sending them back out if necessary, negotiating the return fee, answering all their questions before, durnig and after signings, disbursing individual checks, etc. Not when they can make one call to a SS that will take care of all that.
I also don't begrudge SSs who take a 50/50 split. It doesn't take long to eat into that 50% when they have to pay NSAs a print/trip fee or even full fee if lender doesn't fund.
Generally, nobody gets paid when that happens (except us).
I, of course, begrudge the cheap SSs who will sell their grandmother to get a low-ball deal from a TC, then keep most of that and expect us to work for basically nuthin' - if they pay at all. And shame on the TC, too. They know what's going on.
| Reply by MistarellaFL on 11/2/12 2:05pm
Msg #441871
But consider this GG
IF the agency paid you 80-85% of the fee, and there was the occasional no-sign, wouldn't you be willing to forgo payment for that particular signing?
When I work directly with TCs, I get 100% of the fee, with the understanding that a no-sign is non-collectible.
That being said...more than 3 no-signs from a TC will prevent me from accepting anymore, and the TC has been made aware of that before or at the beginning of a new relationship with me.
Usually that's a sign that a broker or lender's rep is not doing their job, and the TC doesn't like working for free, either.
I've had to eat a few but the rewards have been greater.
That's just *my* policy...and it has served me well financially.
| Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 11/2/12 5:33pm
Msg #441921
Re: But consider this GG
Absolutely right, Mistarella. I too would prefer to work directly with a TC. I was just adding to Hugh's post about why SSs exist. Unfortunately, it's really hard to get hooked up with TCs as several other notaries have pointed out ... esp. JanetK who noted that they farm out all the work to their relatives (which has been my experience, too).
| Reply by HSH/WA on 11/2/12 9:29am
Msg #441810
Re: I have not approached TCs because I suspect they have
their favorites; someone who used to work with them and they have know for years. I think they would take my card, smile and indicate they will call, but always call their pal when a singing comes up. Too negative?
| Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 11/2/12 10:08am
Msg #441818
Re: I have not approached TCs because I suspect they have
I suspect the same. And I'm sure the SSs used are doing some "hard core" marketing (sounds kinda, uh . . . ); think there's one here with that name!
Maybe we need to change the "bait" a bit with them
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/2/12 3:21pm
Msg #441898
Re: I have not approached TCs because I suspect they have
Not negative, very realistic. Also, as I've said here many times, title companies are not the place to try to break into the business when you're new. They expect people they deal with to already know the ropes and don't have patience for mistakes or lots of questions.
Back in the day (even before refi mania really took hold) at some companies it was really tough to even get someone to talk to you - and it wouldn't surprise me if that's the case in this market again. 'Course, in those days, it wasn't just a friend they sent their work to, it was often a family member. I can think of several situations right off the top of my head where an escrow officer had a spouse doing all their signings. I think that's probably a little harder to pull off these days, but you never know...
| Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 11/2/12 10:36am
Msg #441821
State your fee - they either take it or not.... n/m
| Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 11/2/12 11:21am
Msg #441828
Re: State your fee - they either take it or not....
Does that mean TC would prefer to pay SS $300 and not $200 to NSA? Maybe they really do see admin side of monitoring ("herding") their own closings not worth the extra $100. I'd give them ALL the attention they wanted for $300!!
| Reply by Yowheelz on 11/2/12 12:17pm
Msg #441837
SS says, "But were are only getting $100 so we can't pay you
more than we are making" Their problem, not mine. SS should have asked for more if they are going to farm out the work.
| Reply by Nattienotary on 11/3/12 1:46am
Msg #441972
Re: SS says, "But were are only getting $100 so we can't pay you
As I expected, I am not confused at all, and all of your comments proved that, so I say thank you very much. All I have to keep doing is sticking to my guns and do whats right Instead, of accepting a low ball offer. I know that what I am doing is helping my proffession insted of hurting it by accepting crap.
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