Posted by F2F/FL on 11/10/12 8:03am
Msg #442879

Another clarification question please help me

understand how a Title Co. owner can also be the NSA at a closing and not notarize the documents in front of the BO at the table. Yep this happened and I was the witness to this action as I was also the Co/borrower.
Can the t/c owner/closing agent/Notary Public get compensated for both transactions legally? I think I am really upset that I didn't even see her stamp in the room with us on the table.
I hope I am wrong but as this was our home purchase closing I was greatly surprised as not one notarization took place. Oh and by the way it was a Chase loan. Help me understand what took place.

Reply by jba/fl on 11/10/12 8:09am
Msg #442880

Shortcuts, not allowed by FL law. So, you take the high road

and follow the law.

Reply by Lee/AR on 11/10/12 8:24am
Msg #442883

Having previously been a long-time r.e. broker, I have attended thousands of closings at various title companies, a dozen or so in which I was either the buyer or seller. Never have seen any notarization take place in a title company while I was present.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/10/12 8:33am
Msg #442885

Depending on how literally you want to take this and

how far you want to push it - here from the FL manual, page 28

http://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/notary/ref_manual23-40.pdf

Florida Statutes section 117.107(9) provides that:
A notary public may not notarize a signature on a document if the person is not in the presence of the notary public at the time the signature is notarized. Any notary public who violates this paragraph is guilty of a civil infraction, punishable by penalty not exceeding $5,000, and that conduct constitutes malfeasance and misfeasance in the conduct of official duties. It is no defense to the civil infraction specified in this paragraph that the notary public acted without intent to defraud. A notary public who violates this paragraph with the intent
to defraud is guilty of violating s. 117.105.

Violation of section 117.105 constitutes a third-degree felony for fraudulently taking an acknowledgment or making a false notary certificate."

Note the words "may not notarize a signature on a document if the person is not in the presence of the notary public at the time the signature is notarized". IMO doing the notarizations at a later time is a violation of this statute. If the notarization is occurring later, it's not occurring in the presence of the person who signed.

Again, your call.

Reply by F2F/FL on 11/10/12 9:20am
Msg #442893

Re: Depending on how literally you want to take this and

Linda I sent you a PM.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 11/10/12 12:38pm
Msg #442931

Re: Depending on how literally you want to take this and

There are two parts to the two most common notarial acts (administering an oath and taking an acknowledgement). First, the signer is asked a question and the notary receives the response ("Do you swear...?" "I do." or "Are you signing as your free act and deed?" "Yes.") This part clearly must be done in the presence of the signer. Next, the notary must document what happened orally by completing a written certificate. A person charged under the Florida statute would probably argue the statute is only referring to the oral part, and that it's OK to complete the written certificate later. Don't know if that argument would work.

Reply by 101livescan on 11/10/12 8:47am
Msg #442888

We would all be amazed and astounded at what happens with escrow technicians who conduct the signing and the manner in which they do conduct the signing.

Just because they are escrow rep, doesn't mean they know how to keep a journal or complete an ack/jurat.

Simply amazing. Shortcuts everywhere.

Reply by ikando on 11/10/12 9:34am
Msg #442898

It seems I've seen some talk about employers being required to train their in-house notaries to follow the state notary laws. Will this impact the way escrow/title handles things in the future?

I traded a car to a dealership when I bought my new one. Oklahoma requires vehicle titles to be notarized to transfer. At no time was a notary present during the presentation, and when asked, the accounting rep who was doing the paperwork said, "We do it this way all the time.". So I'm not surprised other businesses don't follow the law. Wouldn't be nice to see the laws followed?

Reply by F2F/FL on 11/10/12 9:24am
Msg #442894

Re: Linda I sent you a PM n/m

Reply by F2F/FL on 11/10/12 9:30am
Msg #442897

Re: Can I get an answer

to my second question which is: Can the owner of a Title Co. / be the NSA / and be compensated for both transactions. Isn't this a conflict of interest. HUD shows that the TC was isseud payment from the bo. How can she be the Notary Public and do the Title too?

Reply by 101livescan on 11/10/12 9:39am
Msg #442902

Re: Can I get an answer

I can only speak for CA. Notary fees are chargeable line item. The lender requires the ALTA policy.

I've had customers say they won't pay the notary fees, and title eats it. But the ALTA policy cannot be negotiated, it is a lender requirement.

You could try that! next time...

Reply by dgd/CA on 11/11/12 6:42pm
Msg #443010

Re: Can I get an answer

To my continual dismay in California, if an individual that works for a TC; Bank, or other financially classified entity, inclusive of Mortgage Banker or Broker, (irrespective of their position; salary compensation, and/or bonus structure) as long as they retain their commission, and are considered to be W/2 employees, the answer is unfortunately <<<yes>>>>...

With regards to my truly personal position, perhaps I should post something in JP.

Reply by MW/VA on 11/11/12 7:36pm
Msg #443014

I don't know about FL, but tc's close their own loans here

all the time. I'm sure there's a line item for "closing fee" & I don't think anyone cares who gets it. Also, closing costs are soooo much lower these days. They're not padded like they used to be, which is a good thing.