Posted by Gregory/CA on 11/16/12 6:15pm
Msg #443688

CA -Notary Public Disciplinary Guidelines 2012 -updated 2day

http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary/forms/notary-guidelines-2012.pdf

I just happened to go to the site and saw this notice. I haven't downloaded it yet. Waiting until I get home this evening.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/16/12 6:40pm
Msg #443697

They did a good job of sneaking in some of the provisions... one a lot of people didn't even realize was happening until after the public comments were over with. Looks like they approved it, too.

They've done away with the lifetime ban on felons obtaining a notary commission in California. You can now get one after 10 years of completion of your parole or probation if you can prove you've been rehabilitated.

ugh. That's great... it will completely defeats the purpose of going through our background checks now. The way I see it, we're going to have to submit to those other screenings for those companies who insist on not hiring former felons.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 11/16/12 7:36pm
Msg #443701

Well, I know lying isn't always a felony, but still I'll fit right in when I tell my next "reader signers" that I'm charging escrow $25 for every15 minutes over an hour of reading docs....(see post below).

Actually, (totally off topic) there's no such thing as a rehabilitated felon anymore coming out of a CA prison. A couple of years ago a local NPR station did this documentary about the loss of what few rehab programs there were in CA prisons. Apparently, there were a couple of them, highly effective and very low cost, but they were closed when the correction officers union made a grab for every last dime in the CA budget for prisons. It was a very sad program to listen to. Just yesterday, some analyst was talking about the recent CA ballot proposition on 3 strikes, noting that despite its name "California Department of Prisons and Rehabilitation" (CDCR) there is absolutely none, zip, no rehabilitation programs operating in the prisons. So former felons are on their own ...

Just think! Charlie Manson may be coming to your house for a loan signing! Sure, turn over your ID and copy to him. OK, maybe I'm overreacting (who, me?) but still..... I think this is a verrrrry bad idea. Once word gets out that ex-felons are notarizing docs, it will tarnish any credibility the NP position has.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/16/12 8:07pm
Msg #443709

GG, that's my feeling as well. The lenders who have strict No Felon policies in their compliance policies will immediately discredit any and all backgrounds checks we've gone through here in CA. Backgrounds checks we still have to pay for, by the way. I can see it now... Now they're going to force us to submit to background screenings under the premise that they have to be sure we aren't convicted felons, and now that CA may allow rehabilitated felons to obtain a commission, they must further screen any and all CA notaries before we can work for them.

Thanks a lot California... again.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 11/16/12 11:00pm
Msg #443725

Change of direction for this post

I hadn't thought of this in years.

I have been teaching notary classes for 8 years now in CA and this message really brought back one of the funniest/ and or sickest/ revelations to me of problems with the courts/ law/etc.

It must have been 6-7 years ago that a woman in class, asked to talk to me to in private,
and wanted to tell me that 12 years ago she had biten her husband and went to jail and would it stop her from being commissioned?
I said I didn't know, but being nosey I asked her "what happened"?

She said he stayed out all night and when he got home she bite him so hard on his arm that the neighbors heard his screams and called the police.

She was in her early 30"s and owned a business( she was also very good looking) and I was just incredulous that this woman in front of me had bite her husband.

I asked are you still married to him and she " yes and he has never stayed out all night again"!
I guess not!!

Reply by linda/ca on 11/17/12 2:24am
Msg #443741

Re: Change of direction for this post

No wonder they call California "the land of fruits and nuts." This is just crazy!!! I have about had it with this State. Of course California does not have a patent on being crazy but they get the blue ribbon!

Joan, I don't know if your "change of direction for this post" is to show that everyone that has a criminal background is not necessarily a person who has committed fraud. While I can appreciate that fact, it is still no excuse for this new law to pass. Tough break for that woman in your class but everyone don't get to do whatever they want. At least they shouldn't and that's the major reason our society has "gone to pot!," pun intended! I really don't understand the logic other than the fact that California seems to go out of their way to be illogical.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 11/17/12 9:01am
Msg #443750

No wonder they call California "the land of fruits and nuts.

I think that this sentence is offensive.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 11/16/12 11:12pm
Msg #443726

The changing face of CA loan signings

Well, the ironic thing about these background screenings you're talking about is that they'll be from SSs, a large number of which are run by a bunch of lying, cheating thugs anyway, and if they aren't already former felons, they should be in prison - along with alot of the bank executives whose loans they are getting signed. So why not throw in a notary-felon, too? A trifecta of felons!

Just think, your loan comes from a bank/lender whose CEO and CFO are under investigation or already indicted, sent to a SS known for not paying/shorting its notaries and notarized by some guy/gal who spent 7 years in the slammer for holding up a liquor store.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 11/16/12 11:16pm
Msg #443728

Oops! I meant a "rehabilitated" guy/gal .... n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 11/17/12 3:16am
Msg #443743

My first reaction was "What are they THINKING!!???" But after skimming a bit of the first page, I've decided to reserve judgment until I've read the thing - which won't be tonight (or likely tomorrow). I also reserve the right to end up with the exact same conclusion... but I *will* try to read it with an open mind.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/17/12 11:19am
Msg #443755

Janet, I'm still trying to pour over it as well. It's written in a way that you have to really read it a few times to grasp what it is they're saying. It appears that they will make it extremely difficult for this to happen... and just because 10 years have passed since one has completed the terms of their probation, etc. doesn't automatically make them eligible. They do have to provide certification of rehabilitation, whatever that means.

This might help explain some of that: http://www.shouselaw.com/certificates-of-rehabilitation.html

It's the first step in attempting to obtain a pardon apparently.

And, you can apparently try to get this certificate well before those 10 years are up. So the Secretary of State is saying, not only do we want that certificate (or court order) that you're clean... but you have to wait a full ten years before we will even consider thinking about issuing you a commission. And even then, it's not guaranteed. I think they do it on a case-by-case basis.

I'm fully aware that there are a few very good people who have honestly turned their lives around after being convicted of a felony and are probably the most most trustworthy people on the planet. But, the statistics show that those people are the exception rather than the rule. In CA, about 60% of felons are back in prison within 3 years of release according to the stats I found. The odds aren't that great that you'll find too many that make it to the 10 year mark...so I suppose the ones that do are serious about turning their lives around. However, at the same time... I can just see this causing more trouble for the rest of us more than anything as I noted yesterday.

Just the possibility that CA is commissioning convicted felons is enough to make these lenders and title companies stop and say, "WHOA... we don't care about your background check anymore. We require a new one because your commission means nothing to us if your state is possibly giving seals to felons."

These companies have the right to set their own policies the restrict convicted felons from working with them, so they're going to have to make sure that any contractors they work with are not convicted felons. The way to that? Force us to submit to some other background screening.

One thing i noticed is that a certain national organization didn't speak up about these changes as I thought they might have. Now that i think about it...why WOULD they?? They can now turn around and sell more background checks to these companies promising to weed out the felons for them.

Reply by kathy/ca on 11/17/12 11:24am
Msg #443757

It's not like there is a shortage of notaries in CA!! n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/17/12 11:39am
Msg #443761

Re: It's not like there is a shortage of notaries in CA!!

Well.... actually... there is, in a way. California has the lowest number of notaries per capita in the country. As of October 2012 there are approximately 130,000 fewer Notaries Public in CA than in 2008 - which equates to about HALF of all of that state's commissioned notaries have gone away.

Personally, I believe that is directly related to the addition of the expanded background checks. After that, I believe it it the sheer expense and PITA factor of getting commissioned in the state. More and more employers simply aren't willing to foot the bill for their employees anymore, nor deal with the added liability issues.

In the cities, there is an extreme saturation of notaries to be sure. But in more rural areas, such as where I live.... not so much.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/17/12 11:48am
Msg #443764

Re: It's not like there is a shortage of notaries in CA!!

Let me clarify...

TO compare (and these numbers are taken from the XYZ's notary census from May 2012, but the numbers are accurate):

California has 440 notaries for every 100,000 residents.

A sampling of other states:

Florida: 2117
Texas: 1599
Virginia: 1421
Pennsylvania: 583
Vermont: 2353
New Jersey: 1432
Arizona: 1550
Ohio: 1948
New York: 1449
North Carolina: 1507
Wisconsin: 1552
Maryland: 1223
Kansas: 1806
Georgia: 1663
Illinois: 1357
Indiana: 1352

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 11/17/12 11:53am
Msg #443765

Re: It's not like there is a shortage of notaries in CA!!

PS -- I have the PDF of the whole list. IF anyone wants to see, just send me a note and I'll email it to you.